Episode 12

full
Published on:

21st Dec 2023

Legends of GTM - Jill Rowley and the Nearbound Movement

Jill Rowley is a legend in SaaS, with early tenures at Salesforce and Eloqua. As one of Eloqua's first salespeople, she helped shape the category of marketing automation and was also an early pioneer of social selling.

Today she is helping evangelize a new perspective on partner-led growth, which she calls "nearbound."

Jill and I talk about what it was like selling cloud-based software in the early oughts, helping the first customers to use marketing automation, and what it means to go to market with partners.

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About Today's Guest

23 years in SaaS. Early employee at Salesforce (first 100), Eloqua (#13), HubSpot Advisor (2014-2016), Marketo (2018).

Loves startups, especially category creators - - in the trenches building Nearbound.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/jillrowley/

Key Topics

  • [00:00] - Introduction
  • [01:23] - Start of Jill's career at Salesforce.
  • [03:08] - How Jill pitched SaaS in the early days of cloud software. Salesforce's guerilla marketing tactics.
  • [04:47] - Moving to Eloqua as employee thirteen. Creating the category of marketing automation. Evangelizing for the importance of marketers on revenue.
  • [10:05] - Early days of service partnerships at Eloqua. Co-selling with David Lewis.
  • [11:54] - Types of service partner relationships. How there can be power-disparities and bad dynamics between smaller service partners and larger vendors. How many companies still view service partners as a source of leads rather than a way to build credibility and influence with prospects. There are bad fit partners. Need to have organized partner ecosystem data.
  • [15:26] - Definition of nearbound. Living in market with your partners. Differences from inbound and outbound. Looking at a practical, hypothetical example: Clari and Hubspot.
  • [20:41] - Addressing potential criticism of the partner-led approach: that it's too slow. Why you can't go to market with 1,500 partners.
  • [24:01] - Why the value of partnerships is far more than leads. Top-down vs. bottom-up partnerships. Why both are important.
  • [29:50] - Partner ops. Reference to Scott Brinker's article (see resource links).

Resource Links

Learn More

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Transcript
:

Today I'm excited to continue our legends of Go-to-Market series

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with the one and only Jill Rowley.

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Jill is someone who has lived and

breathed the life of startup tech

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and B2B SaaS for the past 23 years.

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She was one of the first

100 employees at Salesforce.

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Number 13 at Eloqua, she's

advised HubSpot, was chief

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marketing evangelist at Marketo.

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So this is someone who has really

left her mark on pretty much every

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major player in marketing automation

category, and she continues today as a

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GTM advisor and LP at Stage two Capital.

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And most recently has taken on a role in

strategy and evangelism@nearbound.com,

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helping to influence another new

wave B2B go-to-market strategy.

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So we are gonna discuss all that and more.

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Today, Jill, to the show.

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jill-rowley_1_12-06-2023_163823:

Justin, I'm on been beginning.

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Track 1: There was a first time

for everything, and I'll say I saw

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the intro that you got, I think it

was at the near bound conference.

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It was like royalty, you know,

being announced into the hall.

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So I cannot hope to compete

with that intro, did do my best.

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Um.

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Jill, you've, had an

incredible, career so far.

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Been, some amazing places

at some amazing times.

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Maybe we can just start with

like, early days at Salesforce and

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what was that like kind of in the

beginning of selling the cloud,

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jill-rowley_1_12-06-2023_163823: Yeah.

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Track 1: I.

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jill-rowley_1_12-06-2023_163823: it wasn't

called cloud and it wasn't actually.

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SaaS, it wasn't called

software as a service.

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I joined in 2000 and Salesforce was one

of the very first, companies where the

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software was delivered via a web browser.

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competition was on-prem

and only for Enterprise.

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And it cost a crap ton of money.

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And you paid up front and you

hired an army of consultants.

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To on servers.

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And you wanted to make a change to

the software, you had to get all

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of the salespeople's laptops from

outside the field install the new

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disc get them to the latest version.

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a very different, model.

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And me, having never sold

on-prem, but hearing the stories.

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software as a service.

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We called it a SP application service

provider back then, it made unbelievably

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an incredible amount of sense and, you

know, I was so excited help shepherd

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in, more modern to deliver software.

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was only there for two years.

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I ended up joining customer of

esforce Eloqua, is, mind you,:

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2002.

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There was no app exchange that didn't

ome along until I think, like:

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And, because I saw that

the need to connect.

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Automation, was the only product that

Salesforce had back then a marketing

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database, which is what Eloqua was.

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So I've been in the partnerships

world from the beginning of

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my, software sales career.

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Track 1: every salesperson has their

pitch or their message that they

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know can kind of land with someone

to explain what that thing does at

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that point in time, selling against

Siebel and on-Prem, was that really the

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angle that you took with Salesforce?

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Like you're not gonna have to get all

your field people's laptops into update

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them every time and that sort of thing.

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jill-rowley_1_12-06-2023_163823:

what's interesting about like Mark

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Benioff pretty much has always

been the CMO of Salesforce and.

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those days there were picketing

at Siebel's conference funny

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because we were selling software

Salesforce, but there were no like

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Track 1: Uh,

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jill-rowley_1_12-06-2023_163823: with

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Track 1: I remember.

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Yep.

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jill-rowley_1_12-06-2023_163823: red line,

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Track 1: Yep.

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jill-rowley_1_12-06-2023_163823: no

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Track 1: I.

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jill-rowley_1_12-06-2023_163823:

it made people think, wait,

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like no software and, and.

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We then articulated that

was a service, right?

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it was software as a service, but it

wasn't even called that back then, but

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the, it was like, stop the nonsense

with expensive, difficult, software

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that you have to implement than.

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Web browser point,

click close our tagline.

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and it was just the, the ease, right?

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Track 1: Yeah.

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jill-rowley_1_12-06-2023_163823:

friction time visibility.

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Someone puts a new opportunity into

Salesforce anybody could see it,

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who has access around the world.

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that was revolutionary back then.

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Now it's what you expect, but

it was absolutely back then.

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Track 1: I remember reading about

that, picketing, Siebel, strategy,

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to be probably the most, gorilla

marketing campaign, at least in B2B.

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And then, you know, funny to think that

now Salesforce is the huge giant that

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everybody is going after in the CRM space.

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And then you, as you mentioned, moved over

to Eloqua, which at that time there wasn't

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a category for marketing automation.

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What you think that it was, or how did

you conceive of that thing at that time?

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jill-rowley_1_12-06-2023_163823: What

I love about Eloqua from the birth of

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the company, which Eloqua was founded in

:

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A lot of people when they look

back, didn't even know that

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Eloqua was software as a service.

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You know, a lot of people thought

it was on-prem software because of

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the time, the timing of when it hit

the market, but it was always SaaS.

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Eloqua was from day one.

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The system of record marketing.

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the vision one was to increase conversions

marketing spend to impacting sales and.

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Gosh, we're still fighting today

about sales and marketing alignment.

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Track 1: Mm-Hmm.

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jill-rowley_1_12-06-2023_163823:

And Eloqua was not designed as,

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know, a batch and blast email tool.

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It was yes, email, email wasn't ruined.

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It was in its infancy.

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And in fact, companies even have

like their first party, email list.

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At that point in time, companies were

renting and buying email list, and it

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was through Eloqua, educating the market

on content and then to landing pages

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and forms to capture information and.

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Automation to, sure your data was clean

and to ultimately score and nurture

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and route, more highly qualified

leads, opportunities through sales.

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marketing automation

didn't exist as a category.

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We really helped build that generation.

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Like this was the time when marketing

B2B was going from brand to demand,

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from analog to digital, and from,

no data, no process, no automation,

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no workflow, no impact on revenue or

pipeline marketing ops as a function.

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didn't exist, I'm so fortunate in my

career to really be at the forefront

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of really massive transformation,

marketing and in sales selling.

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And more holistically go to market.

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Track 1: on your LinkedIn profile,

when you have the line for Eloqua, like

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your, your title that you put there

was eloquence and you focus a lot in

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that description on customer success

and how that was part of your job.

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was it a pure sales role there?

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Was it kind of sales and implementation

and what was it like bringing some of

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the first companies to really ever use

marketing automation into that world?

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jill-rowley_1_12-06-2023_163823:

For the 10 years I was at Eloqua,

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I was an individual quota carrying

sales rep, company matured.

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I became known in the industry

as more of an evangelist for B2B

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marketing and really saying things

back then that of whack in terms of

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everyone was questioning marketing's

contribution to, pipeline and revenue.

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I was out there saying that marketers.

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Needed to be paid more because, and still

believe, being an individual quota of

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caring sales rep back then, that marketing

influences single dollar of revenue.

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Literally every dollar of revenue

marketing has some type of influence

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marketing owns the website.

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And positioning the messaging and the

content and so many things in between.

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And I was campaigning like that.

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Gorilla Marketing

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Track 1: Mm-Hmm.

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jill-rowley_1_12-06-2023_163823: case.

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who I am.

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I'm, I'm very much someone who

challenge, how things are being done.

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I'm not here to do things the way they.

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Are being done, the way

that they're possible.

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Right.

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And modern, . when I would talk to leaders

about year, they have to grow revenue 30%.

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Back then it was like sales leaders

own the keys to the kingdom.

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And sales would say.

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I need more money to hire more reps to,

do more outbound, make more calls, send

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more emails, do more steak dinners.

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And marketing would say, I

need more money to run more

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campaigns, to generate more leads.

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And I was looking at how do we

actually engineer marketing to be

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more about not leads, but qualified

pipeline how can marketing impact

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conversion rates and the velocity.

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And you don't need more salespeople.

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You actually need to invest more in

marketing and not top of the funnel,

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but and that you need better enablement

like sales enablement, enablement.

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You don't need more reps.

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you need better enabled reps.

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And that better enablement is a

partnership with marketing and sales

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and ultimately customer success they're

the closest to the customer and they can

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feed back into your product team, your

marketing team, your sales team, know.

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No more shitty products, no more

false advertising and marketing.

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reps bad fit that aren't in

your ICP, where they miss that

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expectation at that point, customer

success can't clean up the mess.

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understanding even early in my career,

the value of partnerships a partner

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ecosystem of services, organizations,

solutions, partners, agencies.

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To help your customers actually do the

thing your software has the capability

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to do, but the customer doesn't have the

internal, skillset, experience, resources.

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for me, and solutions partners

have always been in my wheelhouse.

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Track 1: you mentioned service

partners and I of my career so far.

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working in the Marketo service partner

ecosystem, so know that space really well.

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it made me curious, how early on did you

start having those pop up around Eloqua?

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Was it right from the beginning?

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Was that an important

part of your go to market?

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jill-rowley_1_12-06-2023_163823:

tell the story.

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In 2007, an eloquent customer

came to me, Dave Lewis.

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He was the SVP of Marketing at Ellie Mae.

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Mae an eloquent customer of 2004, super

early, and was the modern marketer just.

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understood technology, which

Eloqua was pretty complex, and

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understood the creative side,

really understood demand generation.

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ops, like just, he was like the

perfect SVP of marketing, the

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perfect modern marketer could

really leverage the power of Eloqua.

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he lived in He came to me and he

said, I'm thinking about starting a,

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an agency, a services company Eloqua.

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Would you bring me in on deals?

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you introduce me to your customers?

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I said, hell yes.

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you've been to the place that my

future customers are trying to go.

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You've done the thing that my

future customers are trying to do.

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You know how to instrument not

just the software, but the modern

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marketing transformation in marketing

to its proper position within an

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organization as peer to sales.

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So that was our first, services and Dave

and I, we closed a lot of deals together.

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he was my sales engineer.

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brought instant credibility.

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He could tell stories inner

me trust by bringing him in

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early and really not selling the

software, the feature function.

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But describing journey to being a

revenue contributor in the organization

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Track 1: what you described just there,

your relationship David was like,

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that's the perfect, vendor partner

relationship it's a real win-win.

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And I've had those experiences.

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I would say more common in my experience,

has been relationship, I guess that's

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more transactional and where there's a

real almost power disparity, like It's

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great to be in the Adobe ecosystem,

but you're like a tiny little fish

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like riding alongside a whale and

like eating, you know, little bits of

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plankton that the whale leaves behind.

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And it can feel that way.

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And a lot of reps are, Lacking

in certain, empathy capabilities.

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Maybe like when they want you, call

you, but when they don't, they won't.

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so that can be a real challenge and I

think people have been burned by that.

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can leave a bad taste in the mouth.

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would you say to that?

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Is this a problem in the way partnerships

are done today in some cases?

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And how do you address it if so?

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jill-rowley_1_12-06-2023_163823: kind

of like the whole, things that shock me.

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the understanding that software as a

service is a subscription and you have

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to value and continue to value and

impact on, on the customer's business.

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It shocks me still that, salespeople

don't understand the power of partnerships

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and that don't understand it either,

many CROs still today, many CEOs, the

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investment in partners to get leads.

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Get to get sourced and without the

realization the influence, the

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credibility, the trust, the how

do we win together, do we deliver,

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really what customers want, which

isn't another piece of software.

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still shocks me today

that isn't a no-brainer.

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yes, it can get messy yes,

there are bad actors.

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actually, I've seen it are

bad fit partners, just like

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they're bad fit customers.

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Track 1: hundred percent.

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jill-rowley_1_12-06-2023_163823:

bad fit partners.

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and I've seen partnerships done at the

executive level for the wrong reasons.

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One example is a partnership was done

to get the partner as a customer pay,

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you know, 5 million in annual recurring

revenue for our software under the

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guise of this is a great partnership.

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When the overlap in the ideal customer

profile wasn't there, and spend a lot of

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cycles to spin up a co-market, a co-sell

a cog grow, and salespeople a lot of

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calories, investing in a partnership

that never should have been done.

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Comp plans.

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Like comp plans drive sales rep behavior.

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And so there has to be a rethinking of

comp plans and thinking more holistically

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about the ecosystem, the transformation

that has to occur in partnership function.

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Is very similar to the transformation

has occurred and continues in

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marketing and now in rev Tech Rev ops.

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Literally, I can count

on my fingers and toes.

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How many companies have

partner ops feeding into.

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Rev ops and partner data ecosystem

data feeding into the rev ops

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operating model where strategic

decisions go to market being made.

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are we gonna allocate resources?

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And if your partner data.

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Isn't even like because your partner

team is still running on spreadsheets,

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swapping like customer lists, you know,

at the bar, exporting Excel spreadsheets

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and printing them and, trading them.

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Then data, you have partner ops,

which very few companies do, but

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it's still sitting on an island

and oftentimes called channel ops.

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It doesn't tie into the operating model

where strategy is set and resources

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are allocated, and so no wonder why the

C-suite boards currently still don't see

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the impact partners have on the business.

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Track 1: So maybe that's a good

opportunity to actually define

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what we mean by near bound.

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Does it just mean going to market

with partners, is it a more profound,

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transformation than that in terms of

how companies think about their GTM?

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jill-rowley_1_12-06-2023_163823:

Love the question.

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And it is more profound

and it is, more holistic.

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at the center of it is actually people

and are people your partners, right?

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Like Sure it's a company, but

there are people in the company

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and people have relationships

and networks live in ecosystems.

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And near bound, the term is a play.

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On outbound inbound, and when you

create a new category like near bound

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when we hear something, we wanna know

what is it like, what is it similar to?

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What do I already know

that I can relate it to?

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outbound simply is target and interrupt.

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you've got targets in your database.

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You have prospects you go interrupt

your emails, through your calls,

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through your LinkedIn notes.

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Inbound is a pull and attract

content your events and so

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forth, your communities.

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You're pulling people in Near Bound

is a surround strategy, and the

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idea is that with Near Bound, you're

living in market your customers, your

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future customers, your future your

buyers, you're living in their market.

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When you live in the market,

you have to do less go to market

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you are where your buyers are.

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Okay?

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Where are your buyers?

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And the way that you look, the way

that I look at everything I go back.

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my starting point is the customer.

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I say is, what is the

customer's ecosystem, right?

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Who is nearest to the customer?

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Who is closest to the customer, and

how do you closer and nearer to the

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customer by getting closer and nearer

to the people and the companies

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that are nearest the customer.

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Track 1: So what would a, a

practical example of that be?

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Just to make it, real.

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I understand it at a high level,

but make it concrete, perhaps.

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jill-rowley_1_12-06-2023_163823: A

practical example would be a cl as an

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example, a revenue and Claire's customer.

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The buyer The chief revenue

Officer and the head of rev ops.

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And so let's put that head of Rev Ops,

that chief revenue officer at the center,

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and let's ourselves, is the tech stack

that CRO, that that Rev ops leader has?

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What have they already procured?

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What have they bought?

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Who are the solutions partners, the

consultants, the advisors that that

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CRO and that Rev ops head are working

with or have worked in the past?

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are the communities that CRO,

that that Rev ops leader.

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Belongs to and lives in.

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Who are the analysts that CRO and

your head of rev ops subscribe to?

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are the subject matter experts?

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The thought leaders that your

CRO and that your head of rev ops

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from and trust, how do you fit in?

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Right?

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Where are your connections?

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where do you make sense?

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Right, to enhance.

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So if Clary their CRO buyer is using

HubSpot, then does your product

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also so integrate with HubSpot?

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And the more dots you can connect how

you fit into your customer's ecosystem,

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the more relevant and interesting

you will be desired customer.

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Track 1: that helps a lot.

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so the outbound way of thinking

would be like . Hey, our target

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buyer tends to use HubSpot.

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Let's do an outbound campaign talking

about our HubSpot integration, like

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the our outbound mentality on that.

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. Message, but the near bound mentality

would be more to, Hey, let's try to build

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a relationship with HubSpot and find

a complimentary way to go to market.

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So presumably you would be filling a

gap that makes HubSpot more sticky, that

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makes their customer's life better, so

they want to bring you in, and meanwhile

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you're getting access to that person.

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Is that the near bound

mentality on that problem?

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jill-rowley_1_12-06-2023_163823:

Absolutely.

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Absolutely.

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and it starts from the

lens of the customer.

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Is there a better together

joint value proposition story?

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And we have overlap our

ideal customer profile?

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Whether that be, you know, segment SMB,

mid-market enterprise, whether that

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be buyer persona, that be industry,

whether that be or all of that combined.

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And you mentioned, filling in the gap

like the edges of other products and.

338

:

wrapping around that services and

solutions like in partnerships,

339

:

there's this expression, this saying

that one plus one equals three, So

340

:

you put Clary and HubSpot together,

plus one, but the outcome is three.

341

:

it's that much better

because it's together.

342

:

believe that, right?

343

:

And oftentimes that is the case,

but the customer doesn't want three.

344

:

The customer wants one.

345

:

The customer doesn't want

two, the customer wants one.

346

:

And so when Clarity and HubSpot remove

the friction from the customer to

347

:

understand one, the better together

story to two, do the integration to

348

:

make sure that from a data, from a

workflow process, reporting insights.

349

:

Is better for the customer.

350

:

Track 1: A potential

criticism of this approach.

351

:

Not I'm saying I believe it, but

let's just like explore it and

352

:

maybe debunk it, but it could

be . You're taking another step back.

353

:

So rather than just approaching

the customer directly, I

354

:

have to first go to HubSpot.

355

:

I have to like, my focus now shifts.

356

:

I have to get in with them.

357

:

We have to develop a joint value prop.

358

:

We have to develop a joint go

to market, and then I can get

359

:

access to their customers.

360

:

Is the say, well, yes.

361

:

It takes longer upfront, but then

it's faster once you get it moving.

362

:

Is that the rebuttal

to that point of view?

363

:

jill-rowley_1_12-06-2023_163823: It is.

364

:

and that's why you can't

partner with everyone.

365

:

having 1500 partners,

different tiers, right?

366

:

And the tiers are based

on demand in the market.

367

:

And like HubSpot, they do

have:

368

:

Salesforce has like tens of thousands

I think, and more doesn't equal better.

369

:

And you can't do joint go to

market with:

370

:

and it starts with what is

the market saying needs and.

371

:

HubSpot is a Reveal So Near Bound

is the category Reveal is the

372

:

B2B SaaS company and Reveal is

the software that partner need.

373

:

it is the foundation because

it's, it's the data, it's the

374

:

ability to compare partner data.

375

:

So it's the ability for clarity.

376

:

To share their customer and pipeline and

whitespace data with so you're able to see

377

:

who are our joint customers already today,

who is already using both our solutions.

378

:

is the in the ICP by segment,

by vertical, by geography?

379

:

Multi-product companies like HubSpot

by hub, this rich like ecosystem data

380

:

you know, this, probably sounds like,

what the hell is she talking about?

381

:

To a lot of, like even your listeners.

382

:

This is new.

383

:

kind of like, you know, marketing

automation back in:

384

:

And like, you're right.

385

:

Going back to your point, a lot of

like and analysis needs to go into

386

:

your partner You don't wanna get Not

actually like, some experiments, right?

387

:

make some betts educated

data-driven betts.

388

:

oftentimes listening what the customer

is asking for, leveraging call recording

389

:

software hear how often are your future

customers and your existing customers,

390

:

even recording calls with partners.

391

:

Understanding like what

is being mentioned.

392

:

So your point is very valid.

393

:

And then once you like start to

build this, joint value proposition,

394

:

know, deeper integration, and you're

like, you're aligning your marketing

395

:

teams to do near bound a BM, right?

396

:

We shouldn't be doing

a BM without partners.

397

:

We shouldn't have case studies.

398

:

don't actually mention partners.

399

:

getting your sales teams to get out

of the transactional mindset of gimme

400

:

leads, and aligning your CS teams

from a, you know, we know that when a

401

:

company has more products integrated

with each other they are stickier.

402

:

but the scarcity mindset of.

403

:

I'm not gonna bring in another technology

or make my customer aware of another

404

:

technology because that budget, that spend

is gonna be, I wanna get as much of it

405

:

for me as possible, rather than thinking

about what is gonna make my customer

406

:

short and long-term more successful.

407

:

a.

408

:

Track 1: And on that point of mindset,

and I agree completely with your,

409

:

Statement that the value that a partner

brings is so much more than just leads.

410

:

I mean, everybody thinks about

the top of the funnel, so

411

:

that's where your mind goes.

412

:

But as a Marketo service partner and

later Adobe service partner, the value I

413

:

brought, they didn't need leads from me.

414

:

They needed me to come in and be the

solutions architect or pre-sales engineer.

415

:

To reassure their prospective customer

that what the salesperson was talking

416

:

about could actually be a reality.

417

:

That's the value, you know, that I brought

in that role and the ones that got it were

418

:

fantastic, but it was very much, you know,

kind of up to the light bulb going off in

419

:

the mind of that individual rep sometimes.

420

:

So that kind of brings into . Perspective,

this kind of two different ways

421

:

potentially forming a partnership.

422

:

There's the top down, you

mentioned where it's like a big

423

:

strategic corporate alliance.

424

:

Could be well chosen, could be ill chosen.

425

:

That has a big impact.

426

:

Or there's almost this bottom up

organic partnership strategy where

427

:

a smart individual rep, let's say

like you, like David Lewis, you're

428

:

gonna help me exceed my quota.

429

:

I'm bringing you in because

it helps me and it helps you.

430

:

do you see both of those

strategies or both of them viable?

431

:

Do you recommend what, top, down,

bottom, up, or, or is good for

432

:

different purposes at different times?

433

:

jill-rowley_1_12-06-2023_163823:

Surround right.

434

:

in this, movement right

near bound partner.

435

:

It is a surround.

436

:

So if you think about, bottom up, top down

and all around, I believe that top down

437

:

just mandates without bringing in stories,

Proofpoint From the boots on the ground,

438

:

then you've gotta get the buy-in, right?

439

:

And you have to have, some

like proof points, right?

440

:

Like, we use me at Eloqua to more

partners, but also educate internally

441

:

to other salespeople our CSS team that,

know, your number one sales rep in

442

:

the company has figured out how to win

and win more and make customers more

443

:

successful by working with partners.

444

:

Track 1: So it feels like both are needed,

you really, you really, I mean like

445

:

any initiative with sales, you really

do need the bottom up, buy-in from the

446

:

field for it to be successful, otherwise.

447

:

. you can lead the, proverbial

horse to water, but, making

448

:

them drink is another story

449

:

jill-rowley_1_12-06-2023_163823:

Yeah, a hundred percent.

450

:

I like Box is a Reveal customer and

their partner team, their partner

451

:

go to market team is In all on

near bound sales and they even

452

:

Track 1: I.

453

:

jill-rowley_1_12-06-2023_163823:

partner newsletter.

454

:

it says we're investing our partner

ecosystem and we have a near bound

455

:

sales program and the three i's.

456

:

And we're gonna partner to win and

we're gonna share Intel, right?

457

:

Everyone thinks it's intros.

458

:

gonna share Intel, We're gonna connect

our partners, our sales, our respective

459

:

sales teams, and our partner leaders.

460

:

gonna look at the right counts, we're

gonna share Intel on that account.

461

:

what else do they have

in their tech stack?

462

:

Who are the naysayers?

463

:

How long did it take 'em to buy?

464

:

are their strategic

objectives as an organization?

465

:

What are the challenges

that they have, et cetera.

466

:

Now we're gonna actually do an influence

play, partner is gonna sort of

467

:

plant some seeds, ask some questions.

468

:

The partner who has the customer

asks some questions roadmap.

469

:

where they're looking to go next.

470

:

Have they considered X, Y, Z?

471

:

So this influence and then intro, right?

472

:

It's great when salespeople, css, people

make intros on each other's behalf.

473

:

a huge ask.

474

:

And an intro requires context, I

need to know, what are you gonna say?

475

:

What are you gonna do?

476

:

And so, you know, back to box, they have

reps who aren't going as far as getting

477

:

like near bound tattoos, but they're

wearing the near bound T-shirt and they're

478

:

sharing their success stories and that's

getting amplified and marketing is saying.

479

:

Okay, this near bound sales,

near bound revenue, how can we be

480

:

part of this near bound motion?

481

:

And, you know, Waylan is the

CRO and, and a buddy of mine.

482

:

you know, I'm, I'm like chipping away at

him at that executive level while also.

483

:

Telling the stories of who's wearing

the near bound T-shirt and why are they

484

:

wearing it and how it ties to revenue.

485

:

And so it's this, you know,

mark, this executive level

486

:

look is at a billion in arr.

487

:

You wanna get to 2 billion,

fastest path to 2 billion is

488

:

with your partner ecosystem.

489

:

Not through.

490

:

Not from, but with, you wanna

know who's executing it.

491

:

Well, snowflake.

492

:

So then I share with Mark the

CRO, the interview of the CRO

493

:

at Snowflake, who basically says

we don't win without partners.

494

:

not only are we partnering, but

our partners are partnering and our

495

:

customers are becoming partners.

496

:

And it's like.

497

:

I then from an exact level, a strategy

level, is this whole surround, This

498

:

is a surround, it's a multi-thread.

499

:

in your four walls.

500

:

It's outside of your four walls, it's

really hard to get someone's attention

501

:

these days really, really hard.

502

:

You think?

503

:

Outbound email.

504

:

We use AI to make it a

bit more personalized.

505

:

Come on, come on.

506

:

You think more calls or more

LinkedIn notes or even more posts

507

:

more like liking other people's

posts to try to get their attention.

508

:

And it's like the whole people buy from

people they know, they like, they trust.

509

:

not enough anymore.

510

:

Track 1: Hmm.

511

:

jill-rowley_1_12-06-2023_163823:

Like people buy from people they

512

:

know they can get value from, and

it's that value that earns the trust.

513

:

and that I trust you when you

make an intro that that is

514

:

going to be worth my time.

515

:

Track 1: So you've alluded to partner

ops a few times and I want to turn

516

:

there because I think, it is a fairly

foreign concept, in a lot of places.

517

:

Like what is it, how is it the same?

518

:

How is it different?

519

:

What are the unique concerns that, you

know, partner ops has to deal with?

520

:

jill-rowley_1_12-06-2023_163823: Uh,

521

:

one you don't exist,

522

:

Track 1: it's always foundational

problem in any line of work.

523

:

jill-rowley_1_12-06-2023_163823:

And, and part of it is are there

524

:

any partner ops communities?

525

:

How many rev ops communities are there?

526

:

Track 1: Yeah.

527

:

jill-rowley_1_12-06-2023_163823: lot.

528

:

There were none before.

529

:

There were, right?

530

:

None

531

:

Track 1: Yeah,

532

:

jill-rowley_1_12-06-2023_163823:

until they did.

533

:

so you've got that like, kind of

like cold start problem, but, I

534

:

wanna leave something of value.

535

:

And number one piece of content

that your audience, your listeners

536

:

to read it's on Chief MarTech

blog, which is Scott Brinker.

537

:

And can't love Scott any more than I

do, he's the MarTech landscape diagram

538

:

Track 1: I'm for him.

539

:

jill-rowley_1_12-06-2023_163823:

and he knows MarTech up,

540

:

down, sideways, all around.

541

:

he's now, had a platform at

HubSpot, turning HubSpot into a true

542

:

platform partner ecosystem company.

543

:

And he has an article called Partner

Ops, the Forgotten Ops that's

544

:

suddenly thriving the ecosystem era.

545

:

And what, what I say is I don't like

ops can't be the forgotten ops.

546

:

article will define.

547

:

What it is, a must-read report.

548

:

rev ops, everybody in

rev ops needs to read it.

549

:

Everybody in partnerships

needs to read it.

550

:

Every CRO needs to read it.

551

:

and so I'm gonna leave you with, go get

that piece of content and reach out to me.

552

:

Personalized invite to

connect on LinkedIn.

553

:

The generic ones aren't getting

accepted anymore, I'd love to

554

:

have a deeper conversation.

555

:

Track 1: We will include a

link to that in the show notes.

556

:

Jill, such a pleasure to speak with you.

557

:

This was super interesting.

558

:

We'll continue the conversation and yeah,

thank you for spending time with me.

559

:

jill-rowley_1_12-06-2023_163823: Yeah.

560

:

Uh, thank you for allowing me to

think out loud, it is the thinking

561

:

out loud, the talking out loud, that

even helps me better understand and

562

:

hopefully communicate the concepts and,

and the courage is required to drive

563

:

transformation within our organizations.

564

:

And.

565

:

Turbocharge, go to market and

elevate us from doing things to, more

566

:

strategic within our organizations.

567

:

Track 1: You know, thinking out loud is

the tagline of the podcast and that's

568

:

exactly what, uh, what I love to do here.

569

:

So thanks for doing it and we

will catch up with you again,

570

:

hopefully sometime soon.

571

:

Alright,

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About the Podcast

RevOps FM
Thinking out loud about RevOps and go-to-market strategy.
This podcast is your weekly masterclass on becoming a better revenue operator. We challenge conventional wisdom and dig into what actually works for building predictable revenue at scale.

For show notes and extra resources, visit https://revops.fm/show

Key topics include: marketing technology, sales technology, marketing operations, sales operations, process optimization, team structure, planning, reporting, forecasting, workflow automation, and GTM strategy.

About your host

Profile picture for Justin Norris

Justin Norris

Justin has over 15 years as a marketing, operations, and GTM professional.

He's worked almost exclusively at startups, including a successful exit. As an operations consultant, he's been a trusted partner to numerous SaaS "unicorns" and Fortune 500s.