Finding Balance and Fulfillment in Your RevOps Career - Danielle Marquis

Justin Norris: 00:00:14

Welcome to RevOps FM everyone.

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We're continuing our series today,

looking at a truly unified RevOps

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teams, teams that support all the GTM

functions of the business from marketing

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to sales to customer success, and the

goal here really is to understand better

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how this unified structure can work.

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The advantages it brings and of

course, any challenges as well.

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And today we're speaking with

Danielle Marquis, who is VP of revenue

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operations at Zappy, where she's been

for nearly five and a half years.

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And Danielle, I was studying your LinkedIn

profile and noticed you've actually

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been in the rev ops world for 15 years

this month, if my math is correct.

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Which is incredible.

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so I'm really interested to dig

into how the RebOp space has

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evolved during that time as well.

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So first off, welcome to the show.

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Thanks for joining me today.

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Danielle Marquis: thanks for having

me, excited to dig in on this.

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Justin Norris: Maybe we can just,

start with that place because, I

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noticed your first role, I think

sales operations analyst: 2009

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now here you are 15 years

later, June of: 2024

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Talk to me about how the RevOps

space such as it is has evolved.

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I don't think that term was even

around in: 2009

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that journey look like for you?

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Danielle Marquis: Definitely not.

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the more networking and events I

go to and folks I meet and talk

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about RevOps, the more I realize

I've had a more unique path.

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Ironically, it's always been in the

sales, marketing, ops space, but a lot of

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folks now in RevOps didn't start there.

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so really I graduated college and

didn't have a job to pay for grad

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school or my apartment in Boston.

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So I got this contractor role.

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It was moving files from one

intranet to their new intranet,

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really sexy, work there, and I

finished that work pretty early.

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So they started having me do,

data loads into Salesforce.

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And so I was still on an hourly

contractor wage at this point.

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And I, probably not a lot of

people tell you they got to

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fell in love with Salesforce.

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We had doing data loads

and data cleansing.

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But for me, I had done an it minor.

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I had started grad classes that were

focusing on process optimization.

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And I started really seeing

all the pieces come together,

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which was fascinating to me.

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I always thought I would

get into actual sales.

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My, PI definitely always was a sales

indicator, but, for me, I always fell in

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love with the backend and how we could

make the workflows, the sales reps were

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doing more and more efficient and really

hit on the goals we were trying to drive.

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some of those first data loads

I was doing was literally, we

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called them blitz Wednesdays.

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And we would load 20 leads

into each sales rep's queue.

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And once they got through those on cold

calling, we'd load more into their queues.

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And I was like, this does not seem

like an efficient nor effective way.

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we're not capturing what's

happening to these leads.

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I'm just, I just keep

dumping more leads in.

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so that's where I really got curious.

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I joined as many networking groups

as I could that were mainly for

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sales management at the time.

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And, around that time, marketing

automation started to come to fruition.

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Not anything like it is today either.

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but you know, the first tools were coming

out and they were taking the concepts of

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a sales CRM and applying it to marketing.

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And then I think it's a really ironic

thing that we've seen in the past,

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probably eight years that come back

to sales as sales engagement tools.

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everything we came out with, with

thought leadership and nurture

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campaigns is all coming back into

workflow management for sales.

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So.

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It's kind of a fun, cool,

interconnected circle.

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but yeah, that's how I got started.

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And then as each of those different

go to market teams started realizing

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the power of having an operational

minded, tech minded, data minded person

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on their team, supporting them to

that, get to those strategic goals.

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and the more you saw those spaces

growing and, I think naturally we

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can talk into like how that fully

came back into the RevOp space.

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but that's how I at least came up here.

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Justin Norris: It's funny.

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I remember vividly in my first

operations job, essentially rebuilding

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a CRM through CSVs and data loads.

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And it was one of the most stressful

things I've ever done, like

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updating thousands and thousands

of activities and reparenting them.

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And so it must be some, kind

of sadistic rite of passage for

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operations people to have to do that.

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Um,

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Danielle Marquis: I'm 15 years in

and I'm a vice president and I have

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the whole department and, uh, My team

will hear me say, don't worry, I'll,

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I'll cleanse that section of data.

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I needed something to do this afternoon

that wasn't like totally mind intensive.

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Justin Norris: just relax, kick back and

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It's good.

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along that journey, do you recall

perhaps at what point this notion

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of like rev ops came about?

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Enter the chat.

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because it's, kind of obviously as in

all things in this space, sort of like

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a rebranding and vendors are using

it, but there is a real thing there.

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I think whether we call it rev ops

or GTM ops, we can talk about that.

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but do you recall when that

sort of bubbled to the surface?

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Danielle Marquis: Yeah, I know for,

at least on my path, I had exposure

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to those other areas of operations

and as I started taking on new, larger

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roles, around the time I started at

Carbonite, which, I think that was like

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2000, maybe 15, around that time, I

came in, they needed a sales ops hire.

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I had been working previously for

Iron Mountain doing just Salesforce.

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Business analysts work.

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So I got exposed to a lot of different

teams and what the needs those teams had.

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And I realized a lot of the outcomes

they were trying to drive could be solved

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with similar workflows or processes I

had been trying to optimize for sales.

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So when I moved over to Carbonite

and I had to stand up a sales ops

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department, had just gone from B to

C to B to B and they were still doing

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a lot of consumer purchase tactics.

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And so I focused on obviously helping

stand up the sales team and what that

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would look like, making sure the CRM was

actually producing value for the company.

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And.

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when I got there, I don't think

anyone had logged into it.

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They just had this

automated lead flow thing.

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And then, their manager would literally

Skype the incoming leads to someone

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else in Skype and have them call.

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And there was no tracking of any of this.

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So I got them to actually use

the CRM, use it for their own

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good, not just more admin work.

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And then I started realizing we

were having really a lot of trouble

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getting the top of funnel in.

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And I was like, what?

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What are we doing on the marketing side?

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And there was really no one

focused on B2B marketing.

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Strategies or techniques.

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They were still blowing a ton of

advertising money on public radio and all

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the things that worked really well to make

them the big company as a consumer brand.

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And so, I learned everything I could

about marketing automation, thought

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leadership, what marketing ops really

looks like and started building that out.

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So that was my first clicking moment.

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Was that carbonite?

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And then I started to see that grow

throughout my networking events, talking

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to other operational professionals who

are having challenges, like I'm doing

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all this cool stuff over on the sales

side, but I don't feel like I have

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the same counterpart on marketing.

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So it's a disconnected, you know,

we're driving a really great lead

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process, but we're not getting the

right volume or the right kind of leads.

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And we don't have any insight into that.

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So, I'd say around 2013, you

started seeing maybe some bubbles.

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I really think Covid probably had the

real tipping point for calling it rev ops,

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getting people really excited about it.

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You saw a bunch of people turn virtually

and having to actually put more content

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out versus having events and having

the same people show up to them.

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and so, I, I still am seeing folks

just rebranding sales ops as a rev ops.

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I think we're gonna start to see that.

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Smooth out a little bit more over the

next couple of years, because the question

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really is, what is the scope of rev ops?

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Where should you play?

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and I think that's what is on our onus

at the company is we're going into to

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help just like you're doing thought

leadership for a prospect or customer.

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We need to drive that thought

leadership and help the rest of the

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company get on board with where we

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could help be the glue for them.

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Justin Norris: So focusing on that point.

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I've noticed, there are some

common paths into this space.

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Some people, in sales ops in

particular come in through finance.

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In your case, it feels more like

through the Salesforce CRM world and

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marketing ops, it's all over the map.

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It's like theater majors

and, English majors like me.

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So we're a weird bunch, but, in your

case, it seems more through the,

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the technical side, how has your

perspective on like what you do.

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And what it's for evolved as your

scope has expanded over the years.

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Danielle Marquis: Yeah, that's a great

question, and super relevant for how

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my role even in my last five and a half

years here at Zappy has evolved, but I

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do take a more technical lens, like my

superpower is connecting the dots between

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journeys, teams, through that intersection

of technology and data insights.

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always been enamored by tech, back

to the AIM days and, all those lovely

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dial ups and burning CDs and everything

I could do to learn about that.

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And I feel like that was my

way of incorporating that into

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the value I bring to a company.

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But it's also really powerful.

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And especially in this RevStack

space, it has exploded.

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Salesforce.

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Really led the charge with all their

partner economy of all these point

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solutions you needed to buy because

Salesforce didn't do it themselves,

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but everyone went to Salesforce.

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And then you see now in the last

three years, and you're only going

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to see it more expand with those

big name companies is the platform.

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I ties Asian.

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I just probably made that word up

and it was very difficult to say.

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So I'm not going to say it again, but,

uh, you know, everyone's moving to figure

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back out the platform because you have,

finance teams cutting down budgets.

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It's all over the place.

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It's a lot easier to sell in a

platform sale than I need five

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tools to do this one process.

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And, it just really, it's been more, the

more data and technology out there, the

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more productivity suck it is for your

operations teams to try to figure out the

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integrations, keep data hygiene across all

those different systems, keep enablement.

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Streamlined across all those different

systems, and that's been a challenge.

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It's happy even, but it's also because

I've taken that technical insight.

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It's helped broaden my horizon of who else

at a company we can help impact change

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with, and impact revenue or cost savings.

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So I've worked our support teams to try

to figure out, they're interacting day to

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day with our go to market frontline teams.

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How are we making sure their interactions

and workflows and technology are up to par

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Justin Norris: And you mentioned

some of the thought leadership and

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evangelizing what you do internally.

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How do you try to position your

team to the rest of the company?

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Danielle Marquis: Yeah, always

the beautiful challenge.

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I think the big topic in RevOps space is

like, how do you get a seat at the table?

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Right.

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I'm not gonna stand here and

say we've nailed it and it's

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a constant growth journey.

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we just had our RevOps

offsite here in Boston.

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So it was an onsite, but, we had a bunch

of people from all over the country

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and London come in and just really talk

about some of that exact challenge.

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And, for us, we have set up special

meetings where it brings all the

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go to market leaders together

to talk about tough topics.

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And we work through solutions

with those go to market leaders.

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So we're helping to make a name

for ourselves that we can guide

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them through problem statements.

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What is the impact of that problem?

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What's the optimal solution

to drive the optimal outcome?

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And just trying to even reframe from,

I'm sure a lot of folks listening might

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have the same challenge where you have CS

leader come up to you with their solution.

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To the problem they

perceive that they have.

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They haven't really identified what

the root cause of the problem is,

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but there's a lot of chatter going

on and it's gotta be a big problem.

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We just, here's how we solve it.

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So our challenge and how we're trying to

get that seat at the table is reframing

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those problem statements with the leaders.

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So, Hey, I hear you.

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I can imagine you're having a

really frustrating time here.

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Let's try to understand why

that's happening before we just

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change an account team structure.

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and sometimes, unfortunately

it's us bringing the.

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not saying I told you so, but

bringing a failed experiment back to

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leadership and saying, Hey, here's how

we were recommending to approach it.

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Had we gone down that route?

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Here's what we could have

done differently or avoided.

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here's how we recommend

to fix the problem.

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So something like

account structure, right?

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a great example of that is, you know, you.

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Might have most of your revenue

coming from your existing customers.

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Most classic SaaS thing.

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It's easy because you know the

people and it's easy to do that job.

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It's harder to go find new people

to make more money and expand

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that share of wallet at a company.

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And so we had that challenge

and it was like, okay, we, are

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really bad at expansion revenue

in these existing customers.

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And we know that's a warmer path than

trying to get a bunch of new logos.

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So we're going to just

create an expansion team.

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And then one of the problems we already

had was how does account management

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and CS work really well together?

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So now you've added a third player into

that account team and within a quarter,

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we were quickly able to see, okay, that

adding another person to an existing

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problem was not the proper solution, but.

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Maybe there was some skillset challenges.

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We need to address that with enablement.

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You know, maybe there was some

prioritization issues with what

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we were giving those teams for

insights or what to focus on.

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We can address those things.

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So, hopefully that answered a little bit,

but those are some ways we're trying to

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build that trust and build that value.

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And build the confidence

in coming and working with

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us versus like,

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I think a lot of teams I've

dealt with that have never worked

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with RevOps, you step in and ask

some discovery questions, right?

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And they're like, Oh God, this

is slowing everything down.

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Avoid Danielle at all costs.

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She's going to slow down any progress.

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And I was like, no, I'm actually

trying to ask some important

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questions so we can move

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Justin Norris: It's, it's a retraining,

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I think, especially if you have leaders

that are more in the like rev ops is here,

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like, you know, generate my report for me

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and, load

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those CSVs.

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And can you get me a coffee while

you're at like, viewing the

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team as a service provider and

changing that dynamic to, want a

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partnership and sort of consultative

collaboration, have you found that

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once you have Broken the ice there

that people are generally receptive, or

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is it a significant change management

cycle that you're going through?

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Danielle Marquis: I would say it has

been a significant change management

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cycle, but we are seeing progress.

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the other thing is the team was

a lot smaller in previous years.

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So when you don't have the bandwidth to

pick up all those challenges, you are

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slowing down progress on some areas.

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so we were able to make more of an

argument to leadership team that we

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needed folks to support some of these

other areas that, the classic thing,

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when you start bringing operations

into a rev ops combined team, we still

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actually have a CS ops person, a sales

ops person, a marketing ops person.

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Um, The idea is that they're non bias.

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They're sitting with us

because they can see all

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sides of what's

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going on with the

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data, the

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insights,

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and the subjective side

of all that, right?

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And they're not necessarily running at

whatever the head of sales wants, the

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head of CS wants, the head of marketing

wants without talking amongst each other.

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And so we have been able to Adjust

the majority of those leaders, but

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then you have a new leader come into

leadership team That's learning the

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company learning your teams learning How

to adjust how they're used to working

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and what made them successful and hired

at this company And you have to kind

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of start from scratch again, right?

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So From our perspective our job's

never done And it's always going to be

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a component of our job description is

ensuring that we are working towards

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being that strategic partner, not a

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customer support.

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I think I joked at a,

the last conference I

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went to that someone asked us

to say what we did without using

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the word sales or marketing.

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And I said, babysat, which sounds a little

rude, but when you look at some of the,

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the things that come into that point, if

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Justin Norris: it's a, it

is a perennial challenge.

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and so you touched on your, team

structure and why don't we go there?

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Maybe you can just outline for us

quickly, like what is the structure today?

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And I'm curious where it evolved from.

306

: 00:16:58

Was there a unification at

some point, like a big change

307

: 00:17:01

Danielle Marquis: the last unification

actually happened this year.

308

: 00:17:03

So five and a half years ago I came in,

it was myself in a Salesforce admin and

309

: 00:17:08

it was kind of figure out what we need

for rev ops before we go give you a

310

: 00:17:13

bunch of hires or buy a bunch of shit.

311

: 00:17:15

And so I appreciate that because the

previous company I'd been at, I came

312

: 00:17:20

in, I had the same directive and

within two months, I I must have shown

313

: 00:17:25

enough value because all of a sudden

they wanted me to hire ten people.

314

: 00:17:28

And I was like, I don't have

enough clarity on what those

315

: 00:17:31

ten roles would do just yet.

316

: 00:17:33

I could tell you two people right

now what we need, but it's probably

317

: 00:17:37

another quarter of doing Discovery and

trying to fix some of the stuff that's

318

: 00:17:41

already there before I could confidently

say what to do with the other eight.

319

: 00:17:44

And it was like, nope, we're hiring them,

you got the roles, if you don't hire

320

: 00:17:47

them, you lose them, and so we hired and

we figured it out, and it Had some chaos.

321

: 00:17:52

But we worked it through.

322

: 00:17:54

And when I came to Zappy, that was

something that I was really excited

323

: 00:17:58

that they maintained the, like, Hey,

get a lay of the land and really be

324

: 00:18:02

the recommender of what we need here.

325

: 00:18:03

So the next hire was an enablement hire,

which actually we took over from sales.

326

: 00:18:08

It was a sales manager that.

327

: 00:18:10

Quite frankly, just loved onboarding

new reps and would rather help

328

: 00:18:15

upscale the reps around him than sell.

329

: 00:18:17

And so that was a, an easy transition.

330

: 00:18:21

And so he ended up heading up our

enablement for the last four years.

331

: 00:18:26

And so from there, we were a

really lean team for my first

332

: 00:18:32

good two and a half years here.

333

: 00:18:35

And around the fall, 2020, I finally got.

334

: 00:18:38

an influx of folks to join.

335

: 00:18:40

So when we were able to get those

roles approved, because we tracked

336

: 00:18:43

all of the incoming requests and

projects and, bandwidth that we needed

337

: 00:18:50

for each of these areas, we decided

to split our rev ops into pillars.

338

: 00:18:54

So with our RevOps team, we have a

performance pillar, which is your

339

: 00:19:00

analysts, they're analyzing everything

around our funnel metrics, sales

340

: 00:19:05

metrics, your CS revenue metrics,

marketing metrics, and then we have our

341

: 00:19:11

systems team, which is focusing on

342

: 00:19:12

the whole, how do we optimize, integrate?

343

: 00:19:16

And, ensure fit for

purpose of our RevStack.

344

: 00:19:19

and then we also have our

enablement team, which is,

345

: 00:19:23

designated around our fails CS space

346

: 00:19:26

Justin Norris: and within those

347

: 00:19:27

pillars,

348

: 00:19:29

are there kind of like a stack bar chart?

349

: 00:19:31

Do you have

350

: 00:19:31

like marketing

351

: 00:19:32

ops, sales ops, CS ops

within them, or are there

352

: 00:19:34

people that

353

: 00:19:35

cover multiple

354

: 00:19:36

scopes?

355

: 00:19:37

Danielle Marquis: Yeah.

356

: 00:19:37

So we have a few folks

that, can do it all.

357

: 00:19:41

So to say, not a lot to be honest.

358

: 00:19:44

And that's actually one of our

topics of our offsite of like, does

359

: 00:19:47

our structure still make sense?

360

: 00:19:48

Are people getting the most out

of the structure, even on our

361

: 00:19:52

team for professional growth?

362

: 00:19:53

Because we do have a dedicated

CS ops director, right?

363

: 00:19:58

And he was sharing that, you know,

I used to do a lot more technology

364

: 00:20:01

focused stuff in my last job.

365

: 00:20:03

And here I'm focusing more on

reporting and analytics and some

366

: 00:20:07

program management for our CS team.

367

: 00:20:09

And he just thinks, like, I don't

have time to do the tech stuff, and

368

: 00:20:12

we have a team that is dedicated

to it, so I don't really need to.

369

: 00:20:16

but he wants to flex those muscles, right?

370

: 00:20:17

So that's the evolution for our own

team we're trying to work in, is how do

371

: 00:20:20

you create more of those cross skillset

sharing and enablement for our own team?

372

: 00:20:26

So that no one feels like they're like,

Zappy is now gonna be atrophieding, right?

373

: 00:20:33

but then I, my marketing ops hire came

from a bit more of a diverse background

374

: 00:20:38

and came in and he really wants to

focus on the marketing side, but then

375

: 00:20:41

eventually get more generalist rev ops.

376

: 00:20:44

I will admit it's been a

challenge to figure out how best.

377

: 00:20:49

To support turning someone that's

been pillar focused or team specific

378

: 00:20:54

focus into a more generalist rev ops,

because their inclination is to first

379

: 00:20:58

think about a sales metric, right?

380

: 00:21:01

Or I need to get this out and

then CS is an afterthought.

381

: 00:21:04

But what I've been trying to add to our

team's dynamic is, Hey, director of sales

382

: 00:21:12

ops, you want to roll out this process.

383

: 00:21:14

Have you connected with our

director of CS Ops to see where

384

: 00:21:19

there's a CS synergy there?

385

: 00:21:21

Or, hey, we want to roll out a CSQL.

386

: 00:21:24

That's only going to be successful if we

also bring along the account management

387

: 00:21:28

team because what actually happened

when we launched it was we launched

388

: 00:21:32

CSQLs To our cs team great idea, right?

389

: 00:21:35

They're talking to these users all

the time they're gonna get more

390

: 00:21:39

of those tidbits that of Sales

triggers than a sales rep might get

391

: 00:21:44

having an actual sales conversation.

392

: 00:21:46

So that was our way of saying.

393

: 00:21:47

Hey A little alley oop for our sales

team because the more they bring in,

394

: 00:21:52

the more revenue CS can burn down.

395

: 00:21:54

And so it's a like nice synergy

there, but then it was like an

396

: 00:21:57

afterthought to tell the AMs about this.

397

: 00:21:59

So they started getting these CSQL alerts.

398

: 00:22:01

They had no idea what to do with them.

399

: 00:22:02

They were close losing them,

400

: 00:22:04

creating their own opportunities.

401

: 00:22:06

it was more chaotic, but

402

: 00:22:08

the idea was correct.

403

: 00:22:09

but we needed to ourselves

have that synergy better.

404

: 00:22:12

And so those are, that's like my favorite

example to use with the team of like, Hey,

405

: 00:22:15

had we worked together to launch this, we

could have seen a lot more value earlier

406

: 00:22:21

Justin Norris: I love that you have

407

: 00:22:22

a performance pillar and you call it that.

408

: 00:22:24

Like people often

409

: 00:22:25

have

410

: 00:22:25

analysts, but I find

411

: 00:22:27

that the way that at least that

412

: 00:22:29

they're positioned And

413

: 00:22:30

talking about

414

: 00:22:31

it.

415

: 00:22:31

It's kind of, you know,

they will run reports.

416

: 00:22:34

They'll provide

417

: 00:22:35

information

418

: 00:22:36

sometimes as requested, sometimes

419

: 00:22:37

proactively, but having the autonomy or

the responsibility to proactively attempt

420

: 00:22:43

to drive performance is not always there.

421

: 00:22:45

It seems more rare.

422

: 00:22:48

Talk about how that works.

423

: 00:22:50

and the sorts of, how they think

about their job relative to

424

: 00:22:54

performance and driving impact.

425

: 00:22:55

Danielle Marquis: We definitely have

an element of the reactive and I

426

: 00:22:59

will say our, sales ops director,

I think they thought at offsite

427

: 00:23:02

was our head of sales golf caddy.

428

: 00:23:06

which actually you could compare the

two cause he should be, supporting

429

: 00:23:10

the strategy to sink a hole in

one, but, uh, anyways, yeah.

430

: 00:23:14

And the performance element of that.

431

: 00:23:16

It's not just building reports and

dashboards and delivering what's asked

432

: 00:23:21

to them, or even saying, Hey, I'm, I

want to get ahead of this metric over

433

: 00:23:26

here, but it's looking at what are our

company strategies, where are our pain

434

: 00:23:30

points, what are we doing really well,

everything that might not even be like,

435

: 00:23:35

okay, here's our marketing funnel.

436

: 00:23:37

But, you know, we're seeing poor

engagement rates on our outbound team.

437

: 00:23:41

an easy thing to do and a bunch of people

have is point at the technology or a point

438

: 00:23:46

at our domain credibility or all these

things that aren't something that's more

439

: 00:23:51

subjective, which is, and that's what our

performance pillar does start to look at.

440

: 00:23:55

Okay.

441

: 00:23:56

What are we looking at for subject lines?

442

: 00:23:57

What titles are you reaching out to?

443

: 00:23:59

So look deeper, not just the numbers

you're looking at, but really what are

444

: 00:24:03

the things that are beyond the numbers?

445

: 00:24:05

and how are those

contributing to the numbers?

446

: 00:24:07

So, okay.

447

: 00:24:08

look at the cohort of titles you're

reaching out to and how frequently

448

: 00:24:11

and if we adjust these titles More

towards our persona over here.

449

: 00:24:15

Are you

450

: 00:24:15

going to see higher engagement rates or

451

: 00:24:17

hey?

452

: 00:24:18

We just implemented six cents in q4 that

has some account scoring we could be

453

: 00:24:23

utilizing to prioritize which contacts

at those accounts you reach out to

454

: 00:24:26

rather than blasting all 50 contacts

455

: 00:24:29

Justin Norris: And to me, that

456

: 00:24:29

example is a good case

457

: 00:24:32

in point of why a

458

: 00:24:34

unified structure can work, or at least

one in which there is a division of labor.

459

: 00:24:38

Because if you are responsible

460

: 00:24:41

for

461

: 00:24:41

systems and bug tickets and, daily

support requests, like that sort

462

: 00:24:47

of stuff is always a problem.

463

: 00:24:49

More of a luxury unless there's like a

really pressing fire and you know Somebody

464

: 00:24:54

is an executive is really making it a

priority But otherwise it tends to get

465

: 00:24:58

pushed to the side and here you have

people that it sounds like have the mind

466

: 00:25:02

share and the time To actually really

focus on that which I think is great

467

: 00:25:07

Danielle Marquis: yeah, time

management, I think, is a challenge

468

: 00:25:10

for any role, to be honest.

469

: 00:25:12

Especially RevOps.

470

: 00:25:13

I like to think of RevOps as, I

always used to train sales reps

471

: 00:25:17

and say, Hey, you're a book of

business, you're a little, you're a

472

: 00:25:19

GM of this portion of Zappy, right?

473

: 00:25:23

You are the CEO or GM of this.

474

: 00:25:25

Like you have control.

475

: 00:25:26

You need to keep your house clean.

476

: 00:25:28

You need to show revenue on this

and just like operating a company.

477

: 00:25:34

But I really truly believe a RevOps

team is many departments at a company.

478

: 00:25:39

We are the marketers.

479

: 00:25:42

We are the BDRs.

480

: 00:25:44

We are the sales reps.

481

: 00:25:45

We are customer success and

training, implementation, we're

482

: 00:25:51

product, we're BI, so time is,

the most precious element for us.

483

: 00:25:57

and that's something that I

think is always a constant

484

: 00:26:00

battle that we're trying to work

485

: 00:26:02

towards.

486

: 00:26:02

I think the biggest thing our

487

: 00:26:04

team has, um, Um, and just like taking

back control of your calendar, some

488

: 00:26:09

are better than others, I actually

kind of suck at it myself, I'll

489

: 00:26:13

time box it and then I'll just take

a call with whoever needs help.

490

: 00:26:16

Justin Norris: So coming to time it

brings us to planning and prioritization

491

: 00:26:22

and when that sort of thing happens

492

: 00:26:24

And you mentioned, you know,

one of the benefits of the

493

: 00:26:27

unified structures that the

494

: 00:26:28

team

495

: 00:26:30

could kind of plan

496

: 00:26:31

together, at least discuss things together

rather than just being solely responsive

497

: 00:26:35

to the head of their functional area.

498

: 00:26:38

How do you approach that process?

499

: 00:26:40

maybe how often, and, finding that

balance between having that centralized

500

: 00:26:45

planning process and then still ensuring

that those functional leaders feel

501

: 00:26:49

heard, feel that their needs are being

taken care of and that sort of thing.

502

: 00:26:53

Danielle Marquis: Yeah.

503

: 00:26:53

So we have members of our team that

actually sit in to the different, uh,

504

: 00:26:58

departmental leadership team meetings,

and then enablement actually joins in and

505

: 00:27:03

does specific rep level trainings as well.

506

: 00:27:07

And, feedback loops.

507

: 00:27:08

and then we also have a biweekly, what we

call the go to market, leadership team.

508

: 00:27:14

Where we do start to say, okay,

here's our go to market roadmap.

509

: 00:27:17

Here are the things we really need

to land in Q1, two, three, four.

510

: 00:27:21

here's where we are around it.

511

: 00:27:22

Here's what departments

really need to own it.

512

: 00:27:26

We live and die by the DRI,

direct responsible individual.

513

: 00:27:30

We really try to ensure there is

a DRI on any initiative that gets

514

: 00:27:33

put on that board with a solid

understanding of what are we trying to.

515

: 00:27:38

Drive is an outcome.

516

: 00:27:39

So if you don't have a desired outcome

or clear aligned problem statement,

517

: 00:27:44

It's likely not getting on to our go to

market roadmap Until you work together

518

: 00:27:48

with who you need to to actually make

it an item And we're constantly having

519

: 00:27:52

those prioritization conversations

Whether or not they're in one of those

520

: 00:27:56

already planned meetings, or if we have

to jump on an ad hoc meeting and be

521

: 00:27:59

like, Hey, there's a fire over here.

522

: 00:28:02

if we need to solve it right now, that

means we're going to drop these other

523

: 00:28:06

things we were working on currently.

524

: 00:28:08

it doesn't mean it's the same as a sales

adage of no, doesn't mean no forever.

525

: 00:28:14

It means no for now.

526

: 00:28:15

so it's working through how to.

527

: 00:28:18

Hey, these things will get done, but

probably a month later than you were

528

: 00:28:22

expecting so that we can solve for this.

529

: 00:28:25

Is this really is big of an issue.

530

: 00:28:27

Here's the data we ever had.

531

: 00:28:28

We try to do as much discovery

and have as much evidence behind

532

: 00:28:32

why something should trump another

533

: 00:28:34

priority.

534

: 00:28:35

we

535

: 00:28:35

also have a leadership team

where if things are really not

536

: 00:28:38

working out here, they

hash it out and then.

537

: 00:28:42

Do a top

538

: 00:28:42

down of, Hey, this is

539

: 00:28:44

where we're going to

540

: 00:28:44

go with this initiative.

541

: 00:28:45

This

542

: 00:28:46

initiative is going to

drop off till next quarter.

543

: 00:28:48

Justin Norris: It's one of the

pushbacks that I typically see against

544

: 00:28:52

unification of operations on LinkedIn

is, the functional leaders feeling

545

: 00:28:57

that their

546

: 00:28:58

ops

547

: 00:28:58

isn't

548

: 00:28:58

responsive to them, and then maybe they

549

: 00:29:00

try to claw it back or, you get to

sort of the ITification if you like.

550

: 00:29:05

have you dealt with that at all?

551

: 00:29:06

Like with leaders feeling that way,

552

: 00:29:08

Danielle Marquis: Oh, for sure.

553

: 00:29:09

especially at Zappy where we didn't have.

554

: 00:29:11

I mean, RevOps was me for a few

years, and then we actually had

555

: 00:29:16

functional operational support.

556

: 00:29:18

And it's interesting, our head

of customer, I joke with him all

557

: 00:29:21

the time about this now, because

now we actually have a dedicated

558

: 00:29:24

CSOps person, he feels a lot.

559

: 00:29:25

But my first three years here,

he was like, damn, I just feel

560

: 00:29:30

like all you do is give your time

to sales and it's just not fair.

561

: 00:29:33

And I don't, what do I

need to do differently?

562

: 00:29:35

And I was like, I think it's more

what I need to do differently.

563

: 00:29:38

I wasn't properly communicating all

the things I was doing for the CS team

564

: 00:29:43

because they weren't super visible.

565

: 00:29:45

So when I got to Zappy, the CS

team were glorified CRM admins.

566

: 00:29:51

So we're consumption based SAS.

567

: 00:29:54

So all the projects that we're running

on our platform, which would be Revrec,

568

: 00:29:57

so CS reps were asked to manually input

those as opportunities in Salesforce.

569

: 00:30:02

So that's a massive time suck.

570

: 00:30:05

So I was spending a ton of time,

more time probably than with sales,

571

: 00:30:09

working with product on how do

we, we have this Cadillac of a CRM

572

: 00:30:14

that integrates across technologies

pretty easily at this point in time.

573

: 00:30:20

Um, And why are we not utilizing

the benefits of those integrations?

574

: 00:30:25

Can we automate some of these tasks?

575

: 00:30:27

They're definitely automatable.

576

: 00:30:28

So it was really, I wasn't making my

roadmap or Where I was spending my time

577

: 00:30:33

visible enough or communicating enough.

578

: 00:30:35

So that's the one piece of advice.

579

: 00:30:37

Like you're think you're

communicating enough.

580

: 00:30:39

You're not.

581

: 00:30:40

Justin Norris: how have you

582

: 00:30:40

found

583

: 00:30:41

it?

584

: 00:30:41

Like you were an IC for a while.

585

: 00:30:44

it sounds like wearing all the

586

: 00:30:45

hats and I, know what that world is

like, and then transitioning from that

587

: 00:30:51

to being executive, having a team.

588

: 00:30:54

It was totally different mindset, totally

different scope of responsibilities.

589

: 00:30:57

Has that been a, like, a

challenging journey at all?

590

: 00:30:59

Or how have you found it?

591

: 00:31:01

Danielle Marquis: It is, I'm

the type of personality where I

592

: 00:31:03

think I'll always be in a size of

company where I get my hands dirty.

593

: 00:31:07

I just, I've done a lot of soul

searching in the last couple years

594

: 00:31:09

and I'm like, I just want to focus

on strategy and delivering on that.

595

: 00:31:13

And at the end of the day, we also

had a riff last year, so I went

596

: 00:31:18

back to being a bit of an icy, just

for bandwidth's sake, if we were

597

: 00:31:21

going to keep up with the, road map.

598

: 00:31:24

I, struggle sometimes to get

my head out of the weeds a

599

: 00:31:28

little bit more than I should.

600

: 00:31:29

Um, actually, I had an executive coach

last year who really helped me try to

601

: 00:31:33

rebrand myself internally because you, I

mean, I have sales reps who think I sit

602

: 00:31:37

on finance team right now because we don't

have a deal desk and when people struggle

603

: 00:31:42

around the structure of their deal or

getting it through the system or whatnot,

604

: 00:31:46

they tag in our team and, and I'm the only

one on our team that knows the intricacies

605

: 00:31:50

of the billing and financial side.

606

: 00:31:53

most of my initiatives are on

the strategy side, but then I can

607

: 00:31:57

dive down and actually solution

build from those initiatives.

608

: 00:32:01

I can QA, I can help guide a solution.

609

: 00:32:04

and I usually get tagged

in when my team gets stuck.

610

: 00:32:08

And I, put that out there

to them all the time.

611

: 00:32:10

I, We have a very open

communication and that's something

612

: 00:32:16

I've always enjoyed with managers I

had and what I always want to be for

613

: 00:32:20

my team is just as hyper transparent

as I can be and I'm available i'm

614

: 00:32:24

available but transparent with that time.

615

: 00:32:27

So if I really can't pick something

up, or I can't be there for them,

616

: 00:32:31

they're aware of it ahead of time.

617

: 00:32:33

or if they're going through something,

they know I'm there to step in.

618

: 00:32:36

Maybe they're hitting a roadblock, I'm

619

: 00:32:38

happy to come be the bad guy for a little

620

: 00:32:39

bit.

621

: 00:32:39

I don't want my team to ever feel

like they're on that pushback

622

: 00:32:43

side of the stick too far.

623

: 00:32:45

they have to push back, because, you know.

624

: 00:32:46

With ops, if we didn't push

back, we'd literally never sleep.

625

: 00:32:49

but yeah, just trying to be the right

amount of coach to that team, the right

626

: 00:32:57

amount of strategic vision for the

high initiatives and the right amount

627

: 00:33:01

of being able to get my hands dirty.

628

: 00:33:03

I don't have a great answer

for how I do it successfully.

629

: 00:33:06

Justin Norris: You

mentioned soul searching.

630

: 00:33:07

It's interesting.

631

: 00:33:08

like

632

: 00:33:08

I entered the professional world.

633

: 00:33:10

It looks like around the

634

: 00:33:11

same,

635

: 00:33:11

year as you.

636

: 00:33:12

So similar kind of length of career.

637

: 00:33:13

And I also have, I've

like thought a lot about,

638

: 00:33:17

over

639

: 00:33:17

time, what makes me happy?

640

: 00:33:20

Like the

641

: 00:33:20

sort of

642

: 00:33:20

work, you know,

643

: 00:33:21

where you, you don't feel like it's work.

644

: 00:33:22

You're just really enthusiastic and

645

: 00:33:24

engaged, the sort of work where

it doesn't feel like that.

646

: 00:33:26

And when you, start out,

647

: 00:33:27

you're like,

648

: 00:33:28

You don't really

649

: 00:33:28

realize that working for a 10, 000 person

company is just a completely different

650

: 00:33:33

thing than working for a, three or 400

person company or a 20 person company.

651

: 00:33:37

And I've kind of seen all those

sizes for people that are listening.

652

: 00:33:42

Maybe just, it could be useful to talk

about like what that soul searching

653

: 00:33:45

process was like, how you sort of

identified your happy place because

654

: 00:33:48

maybe not everyone has fully like

made become self aware, I guess,

655

: 00:33:52

of those things within themselves.

656

: 00:33:53

Danielle Marquis: No, it's a great

question and done a lot of that.

657

: 00:33:56

Like I said, recently, a little bit

more actually helping my little sister.

658

: 00:34:01

she got laid off in November

and had to do the same thing.

659

: 00:34:03

Do I stay in, in this tech space?

660

: 00:34:06

Do I go back to pre med?

661

: 00:34:07

Do I, you know, where do I go?

662

: 00:34:09

And it always comes back to me now.

663

: 00:34:12

in my twenties, I, chased success.

664

: 00:34:15

throughout my twenties and early thirties.

665

: 00:34:17

It was like, how can I continue to.

666

: 00:34:21

Evolve my career, whether that

be pay, title, contributions

667

: 00:34:25

to a company, whatnot.

668

: 00:34:27

my sweet spot is around that, like.

669

: 00:34:30

150 to 400 person company.

670

: 00:34:33

I will say that Iron Mountain

was a little bit of a, I had no

671

: 00:34:36

idea how that thing was set up.

672

: 00:34:38

I don't think they do.

673

: 00:34:40

Um, but, just really thinking

about, it sounds so basic, but

674

: 00:34:44

what gets you up in the morning

it's the people I'm working with.

675

: 00:34:48

How motivated are they?

676

: 00:34:49

Are they as passionate about the

success of the company that I am?

677

: 00:34:53

Because if not, I'm going to burn the

crap out and I'm going to feel more

678

: 00:34:57

negative emotions versus like dopamine

rush around the things I'm contributing.

679

: 00:35:02

Like, and I have gotten to that burnout.

680

: 00:35:05

I will say like Zappi has had

several evolutions in the last

681

: 00:35:08

five and a half years, we are not

the same company that I joined.

682

: 00:35:11

And so with that, inevitably

you're going to have.

683

: 00:35:14

Different people you're working with,

with different motivational drivers

684

: 00:35:18

and really trying to come back to

what motivated me in the first place.

685

: 00:35:22

Culture is huge.

686

: 00:35:24

how people first is a company

and is it just marketing or

687

: 00:35:27

are they actually people first?

688

: 00:35:30

Zappy is people first, probably to our

detriment at some points, because there's

689

: 00:35:34

probably some people we, we should have

parted ways with along the path, uh,

690

: 00:35:37

that were low performers that, we are

people first and we give people the

691

: 00:35:41

benefit of the doubt, work life balance.

692

: 00:35:44

And this could just be me getting older,

but life is way more important than work.

693

: 00:35:49

I mean, money is great and it helps

you afford a life that you want.

694

: 00:35:53

but at the end of the day, if.

695

: 00:35:55

You have to skip two meetings to go see

a recital or you, have a gorgeous day

696

: 00:36:01

and you've been working 60 hour weeks

and you want to go to the beach for the

697

: 00:36:05

afternoon, like log off and go do it

and take care of your mental sanity.

698

: 00:36:10

those are things I know I'm never going to

be chastised or judged at Zappy for doing.

699

: 00:36:14

I mean, if I did all the time,

yeah, I'll be judged for it.

700

: 00:36:17

but you know, it's, it's something

where we're really people

701

: 00:36:19

first and that's important.

702

: 00:36:20

The work I'm doing, I like the

balance of being able to make

703

: 00:36:23

strategic recommendations,

704

: 00:36:25

plan out a roadmap, but also actually

pick up some of those initiatives myself.

705

: 00:36:29

some of the soul searching was like,

okay, if I were just sitting in a C

706

: 00:36:34

level position and not really getting my

hands dirty, will I be satisfied enough?

707

: 00:36:38

And I am,

708

: 00:36:40

no longer a competitive athlete, but

I came up as from age three doing

709

: 00:36:44

gymnastics, competitive athletics.

710

: 00:36:46

Like.

711

: 00:36:47

Whatever I put my all into, I needed

to see a tangible result around.

712

: 00:36:52

And so for me, keeping some of that

hands in the game helps me feel that rush

713

: 00:36:57

Justin Norris: Oh, it is.

714

: 00:36:58

I mean, I think it's super important

715

: 00:37:00

because

716

: 00:37:02

yeah, there's certain things like It's

717

: 00:37:04

fine to want a title.

718

: 00:37:06

It's fine to want higher income.

719

: 00:37:07

but you have to understand what

720

: 00:37:08

actually makes you happy in the job.

721

: 00:37:10

And

722

: 00:37:11

there's one thing that I really

appreciated about being in

723

: 00:37:13

the consulting world was you

kind of got a rotating tour of

724

: 00:37:15

duty through companies of all sizes.

725

: 00:37:17

And sometimes you saw that

726

: 00:37:18

like, Oh, these cool brands, it

727

: 00:37:21

would

728

: 00:37:21

like, look so cool on

a resume to work there.

729

: 00:37:23

And then you see inside.

730

: 00:37:25

How like a 10, 000 person company

731

: 00:37:26

works,

732

: 00:37:27

the chaotic and the pace of change

is so slow and everything's about,

733

: 00:37:32

you know, the meeting for the

meeting, for the meeting to make

734

: 00:37:34

the PowerPoint for the next meeting.

735

: 00:37:36

Like

736

: 00:37:37

I was like, okay, I see that I actually,

for me, and some people thrive at

737

: 00:37:41

navigating in that environment.

738

: 00:37:42

And that's, it's, that's a

skillset that I respect very much.

739

: 00:37:45

But you kind of learn

where your happy place is.

740

: 00:37:47

So

741

: 00:37:48

I think it's cool to like

consciously do that process.

742

: 00:37:51

Because I don't think I did for a

743

: 00:37:52

while.

744

: 00:37:52

Danielle Marquis: Yeah,

and I think it's healthy.

745

: 00:37:54

I did not do it, I burnt out

multiple times in my career of just

746

: 00:37:58

literally burning the midnight oil.

747

: 00:38:00

I would wake up, 5.

748

: 00:38:02

30, work out, get to work, come

home, have dinner, open my laptop,

749

: 00:38:08

turn on the TV, and work until 1am.

750

: 00:38:10

And then I would do it all again.

751

: 00:38:12

I'm not gonna lie, doing that didn't

get me the opportunities I got.

752

: 00:38:15

the opportunities I've achieved in my

career could have happened without working

753

: 00:38:22

80 hour weeks on some of these things,

and setting better boundaries up front.

754

: 00:38:27

That's the other thing I have learned is

755

: 00:38:28

like, be in an environment where

756

: 00:38:30

you can set those boundaries and you can

stick to them and people respect that.

757

: 00:38:34

and that's something where, again,

I didn't really think about culture

758

: 00:38:37

or how those folks around you care

about how you show up or whatnot.

759

: 00:38:42

And like here, I have people I've been

760

: 00:38:44

working with

761

: 00:38:44

for five years that will see me on a call

and I'll get a slack and I'll get a hair.

762

: 00:38:48

Is everything okay?

763

: 00:38:49

they just no, no, like a facial change

or I wasn't talking as much cause

764

: 00:38:53

I don't know how to shut up, you're

really quiet on that call, everything.

765

: 00:38:57

Okay.

766

: 00:38:58

and just like those little things you

wouldn't get yet at a bigger company.

767

: 00:39:01

Not

768

: 00:39:01

necessarily.

769

: 00:39:02

I

770

: 00:39:02

mean,

771

: 00:39:02

Justin Norris: That's really nice.

772

: 00:39:03

Danielle Marquis: work friends, but,

yeah, it's, taking stock and taking

773

: 00:39:06

stock continually, because again,

especially if you're in a faster

774

: 00:39:11

moving company, that company that

You started with is not the company

775

: 00:39:14

you're probably currently at still.

776

: 00:39:17

the hard part

777

: 00:39:17

is

778

: 00:39:18

if all of a sudden You look at

that list of what gets me up and

779

: 00:39:21

doesn't get me up in the morning.

780

: 00:39:23

and what doesn't get me up

781

: 00:39:24

is getting higher, right?

782

: 00:39:25

It's hard to leave that situation, but at

783

: 00:39:28

the end of the day, I'll say it again,

the life side of it, the mental side

784

: 00:39:31

of it is so much more important.

785

: 00:39:33

Justin Norris: You can only drain those

786

: 00:39:34

reserves for so long And then you

know you crash and burn at some

787

: 00:39:39

point We've talked about the last 15

788

: 00:39:41

years of

789

: 00:39:41

RevOps.

790

: 00:39:42

Let's talk

791

: 00:39:42

about

792

: 00:39:43

the next 15 years, or probably

793

: 00:39:44

nobody

794

: 00:39:44

knows

795

: 00:39:45

what's going to happen in the

next 15 years, but even the

796

: 00:39:47

next five years would be

797

: 00:39:48

interesting.

798

: 00:39:49

And I'm curious for your take, and you

can take it in any direction you want,

799

: 00:39:54

whether it's the technology, the role of

RevOps within the company and how it will

800

: 00:39:59

expand or perhaps diminish, what are you

seeing and what are you thinking about to

801

: 00:40:02

prepare yourself for the

next phase of your career?

802

: 00:40:05

Danielle Marquis: from an aspect

of evolving where RevOps sits at a

803

: 00:40:09

company, I truly do believe it will

get more of a seat at the table.

804

: 00:40:13

you see the PE firms really focusing

on how strong your operation teams are.

805

: 00:40:18

they're just as.

806

: 00:40:21

and involved with how your rev ops teams

are set up and what they're doing and

807

: 00:40:24

what they're producing as they are with

what target numbers, your sales and CS

808

: 00:40:30

teams and marketing teams are hitting.

809

: 00:40:31

so I think especially in this kind

of like, I guess mid market ish

810

: 00:40:38

world of a lot of PE firms are buying

up a lot of these, SAS companies.

811

: 00:40:43

You're going to see that push more towards

RevOps getting a larger seat at the table.

812

: 00:40:47

They're even having RevOps advisors

start joining in and, being contributors.

813

: 00:40:51

So, that's something I'm

excited to see because it's been

814

: 00:40:53

missing and it's, been a slog.

815

: 00:40:55

It's been really hard to sit

in front of a, CEO and make a

816

: 00:41:00

business proposition about why.

817

: 00:41:03

they should listen to our

recommendation versus just having

818

: 00:41:05

the head of sales yell louder.

819

: 00:41:07

Right.

820

: 00:41:07

so that's something I'm excited to see.

821

: 00:41:10

I'm not even going to touch the AI

subject because I think everyone's

822

: 00:41:15

still trying to figure that out.

823

: 00:41:16

Like I know that every single

webinar and event is like AI, AI.

824

: 00:41:20

I've been playing around with a lot.

825

: 00:41:21

Everyone's still figuring it out.

826

: 00:41:22

It's TBD.

827

: 00:41:24

I like what Gong's doing with their AI.

828

: 00:41:25

I'll say that.

829

: 00:41:26

I think it's intentional and actually

blending into the already processes you're

830

: 00:41:31

doing around deal reviews or call reviews.

831

: 00:41:34

So I hope to see it more

embedded into what we're

832

: 00:41:37

already focused on a little bit.

833

: 00:41:38

We're introducing new things that,

maybe RevOps wasn't the leader on.

834

: 00:41:44

and we can actually use that to

get more of a seat at the table.

835

: 00:41:48

on a technology standpoint of like how

we're managing, I think you're seeing

836

: 00:41:53

a lot more tech savvy RevOps folks.

837

: 00:41:56

Probably coming in more from the

Salesforce admin into more of a

838

: 00:41:59

generalist RevOp space because they see.

839

: 00:42:02

All of the requests coming in and they

start to learn what a good and bad

840

: 00:42:05

process looks like, and they start

to learn what good or bad metrics

841

: 00:42:08

look like, how to actually analyze

a dashboard, not just create one.

842

: 00:42:12

just naturally, in a seeing, I think

RevOps take on more of that go to

843

: 00:42:19

market stack, and be the voice of,

that technology stack a bit more

844

: 00:42:24

vendor management, all that piece.

845

: 00:42:26

like even at Zappy, we just

kicked off a big tech audit.

846

: 00:42:29

And it's really incredible to see the

different people from the, different

847

: 00:42:36

departments that have been nominated to

join this tech audit and the tech audit

848

: 00:42:40

is, yes, auditing all the tech we have at

the company, but is it fit for purpose?

849

: 00:42:45

Do we have redundancies?

850

: 00:42:46

Do we have the proper, security

reviews on the, cause some things were

851

: 00:42:49

brought in five years ago before we

really had a strong data privacy team.

852

: 00:42:53

Now that team is like probably our most.

853

: 00:42:56

Standard operating procedures have

some really cool stuff and they're

854

: 00:42:59

like super easy to work with,

which I know most people probably

855

: 00:43:01

don't say about their data privacy.

856

: 00:43:03

I love them.

857

: 00:43:03

They're one of my favorite

partners internally.

858

: 00:43:06

but with that, you're starting to see

even like folks on our it team that don't

859

: 00:43:11

know any, the first thing about picking

a technology or, true vendor management,

860

: 00:43:15

they're very tech savvy and they can,

861

: 00:43:17

troubleshoot a bunch of technology

862

: 00:43:18

issues, but actually.

863

: 00:43:20

evaluating what the right tech for your

company at this time in your journey is

864

: 00:43:25

and how you might evolve with it or not.

865

: 00:43:28

and then also the ongoing relationship

and vendor management, how are we

866

: 00:43:31

getting the maximum out of this as

we evolve Are we evolving with them?

867

: 00:43:34

I really have felt like rev ops folks are

so much more ingrained in that these days.

868

: 00:43:39

Cause like that's been

a core piece of our job

869

: 00:43:41

, Justin Norris: I, I,

I, think you're right.

870

: 00:43:42

I'm seeing all those things too.

871

: 00:43:44

I think it's a good time to be in RevOps.

872

: 00:43:46

maybe last thing, just, to weigh

in on this RevOps, GTM ops.

873

: 00:43:50

there's a, a push for another

rebranding going on and I'm

874

: 00:43:53

curious for your, take on that.

875

: 00:43:55

Danielle Marquis: you

know, I had a LinkedIn

876

: 00:43:56

post

877

: 00:43:57

about maybe a year ago, actually.

878

: 00:44:01

It might've been like last April.

879

: 00:44:03

I was trying to get

people agitated by that.

880

: 00:44:06

Like, what do you think about GTM ops and

that being the next evolution of RevOps?

881

: 00:44:11

I'm very bullish that

882

: 00:44:12

that's where it's going to

883

: 00:44:13

rebrand

884

: 00:44:13

next.

885

: 00:44:14

My

886

: 00:44:14

post

887

: 00:44:14

got

888

: 00:44:15

no

889

: 00:44:15

engagement, which means I

just actually need a better

890

: 00:44:17

personal

891

: 00:44:17

Justin Norris: You're so, far

ahead of your time that people

892

: 00:44:20

were just like, I can't

even understand this yet.

893

: 00:44:22

Danielle Marquis: Like, what's GTM?

894

: 00:44:24

but yeah, I do think that would be

895

: 00:44:26

a

896

: 00:44:26

natural, for that.

897

: 00:44:28

Justin Norris: Well, such a

pleasure to speak with you today.

898

: 00:44:31

Thanks for sharing about your journey.

899

: 00:44:33

And yeah, hope we'll stay connected

and touch base again soon.

900

: 00:44:37

Danielle Marquis: Thanks for having me.