A Quote-to-Cash Masterclass - Nicholas Rose and Tony Tarantino

Justin Norris: 00:00:14

Welcome to RevOps FM.

Justin Norris: 00:00:15

Today, we're going to tackle a subject that is not for the

Justin Norris: 00:00:19

faint of heart, quote to cash.

Justin Norris: 00:00:21

It's tough.

Justin Norris: 00:00:22

It's technical, it's complicated.

Justin Norris: 00:00:24

so we're going to chat with two guys who are some of the best in the business, Nick

Justin Norris: 00:00:28

Rose and Tony Tarantino from Hyperscayle.

Justin Norris: 00:00:31

I've actually known Nick and Tony for quite a while.

Justin Norris: 00:00:32

They were clients of mine back when I was on the agency side.

Justin Norris: 00:00:35

They worked for a SAS company called Mendix later acquired by Siemens.

Justin Norris: 00:00:39

But now for the past few years, Nick and Tony have been building their own

Justin Norris: 00:00:43

RevOps agency called Hyperscayle where quote to cash is a big area of focus.

Justin Norris: 00:00:48

So I'm super excited to deep dive on this topic today.

Justin Norris: 00:00:51

Fellas, welcome to the show.

Nicholas Rose: 00:00:53

Thanks.

Nicholas Rose: 00:00:53

funny how things have turned.

Justin Norris: 00:00:55

it really is.

Justin Norris: 00:00:56

I mean, before we dive into the theme of the day, I'd love to And the

Justin Norris: 00:01:01

process from your point of view of going from the in house world, setting

Justin Norris: 00:01:05

up your own shop, what drove you there, the challenges, just love to

Justin Norris: 00:01:09

hear a little bit about that journey.

Nicholas Rose: 00:01:11

Yeah.

Nicholas Rose: 00:01:11

So, we got bought by Siemens and, Tony's worked for Accenture.

Nicholas Rose: 00:01:18

I worked for Dell.

Nicholas Rose: 00:01:19

We've been in the large corporation side for a very long time.

Nicholas Rose: 00:01:22

We both went to the startups.

Nicholas Rose: 00:01:24

Side and done successful.

Nicholas Rose: 00:01:25

We got to a buyout, but the question really kind of came up

Nicholas Rose: 00:01:28

for like, what's the next thing.

Nicholas Rose: 00:01:30

And, you we really wanted to be into Rev Ops overall into the Rev Ops space.

Nicholas Rose: 00:01:34

personally, I was looking out and interviewing and I couldn't

Nicholas Rose: 00:01:38

find a place that I wanted to go work for personally, because they

Nicholas Rose: 00:01:41

all had some of the same issues.

Nicholas Rose: 00:01:42

And I just didn't want to go the same rim and order of going through the

Nicholas Rose: 00:01:46

same process and Not really have a lot of control in playing the politics.

Nicholas Rose: 00:01:49

and and I were sitting on the train and Ben's like, why don't

Nicholas Rose: 00:01:52

we just start our own company?

Nicholas Rose: 00:01:53

And I was just like, you are crazy.

Nicholas Rose: 00:01:56

and you know, after more and more, some certain things

Nicholas Rose: 00:01:58

happen at Midnix and Siemens.

Nicholas Rose: 00:02:00

And I was like, you know what, let's go do it.

Nicholas Rose: 00:02:02

Right.

Nicholas Rose: 00:02:03

we started off, on our own, mainly because we want to have more control

Nicholas Rose: 00:02:07

in our own destiny and kind of create a culture of what we wanted a company to be.

Nicholas Rose: 00:02:11

and so we did that and it has been amazing.

Nicholas Rose: 00:02:14

If you ask me, we would be where we are today.

Nicholas Rose: 00:02:18

I would tell you.

Nicholas Rose: 00:02:20

No, but we have been growing like crazy, and having a lot of fun really

Nicholas Rose: 00:02:26

trying to solve more of customers big pain points and problems.

Nicholas Rose: 00:02:30

and you know, it's been great.

Nicholas Rose: 00:02:31

Tony.

Nicholas Rose: 00:02:31

I don't know if you want to add anything to that.

Tony Tarantino: 00:02:33

Yeah, the big thing for me was, as like we scaled Mendix,

Tony Tarantino: 00:02:37

you know, we started at a 50 percent company to, I think it was close to 5,

Tony Tarantino: 00:02:41

000 when we left, did a lot of things right, made a lot of mistakes, learned

Tony Tarantino: 00:02:45

a lot of lessons, I wanted to take those lessons and apply them elsewhere, and

Tony Tarantino: 00:02:49

this was the perfect opportunity to do so, was to learn from all the things

Tony Tarantino: 00:02:51

we did right and all the things we did wrong, and Help other companies,

Tony Tarantino: 00:02:54

but the fact that that foundation to scale from a boss perspective in place.

Tony Tarantino: 00:02:58

And I thought that was a super fun challenge to solve.

Tony Tarantino: 00:03:00

And every company is a little bit different, but it's still the basis

Tony Tarantino: 00:03:03

of getting your data in place, getting your process in place,

Tony Tarantino: 00:03:06

getting your systems in place.

Tony Tarantino: 00:03:07

And I just love that challenge and be able to do it over and over and

Tony Tarantino: 00:03:09

over again is super exciting to

Tony Tarantino: 00:03:11

me.

Justin Norris: 00:03:11

I've been through a bit of that agency experience myself

Justin Norris: 00:03:15

and there's, when you think about like your product and positioning and like

Justin Norris: 00:03:18

you're So you're a new product, right?

Justin Norris: 00:03:19

So I'm curious about what your, your menu of service offerings is going to be.

Justin Norris: 00:03:21

There's a few different ways to play it.

Justin Norris: 00:03:23

In my past life, we were really focused on one platform and

Justin Norris: 00:03:26

going deep into that ecosystem.

Justin Norris: 00:03:28

And you've chosen more of like a, discipline strategy where you're going to,

Justin Norris: 00:03:31

you're focused on RebOps as a discipline.

Justin Norris: 00:03:34

You have a broad menu of products that you partner with.

Justin Norris: 00:03:37

How did you think about what sort of agency you wanted to be

Justin Norris: 00:03:39

in terms of service offering?

Nicholas Rose: 00:03:41

Oh, it's a good question.

Nicholas Rose: 00:03:43

I don't know if we really thought much about it, To be honest, it was like,

Nicholas Rose: 00:03:47

we know we were good at lead to cash.

Nicholas Rose: 00:03:50

I knew marketing ops and sales ops really well.

Nicholas Rose: 00:03:52

And even customer success ops, we had people that can play in all those areas.

Nicholas Rose: 00:03:56

And, I think one of the things that we've centered around was, is it's

Nicholas Rose: 00:04:00

really hard to have marketing ops people.

Nicholas Rose: 00:04:03

Work on systems and not have a downstream impact.

Nicholas Rose: 00:04:05

They don't know what happens like on the Salesforce or CRM

Nicholas Rose: 00:04:07

side and vice versa, right?

Nicholas Rose: 00:04:09

There's been countless of times when even bigger companies are doing

Nicholas Rose: 00:04:12

something on the sales side and they mess up the marketing side, right?

Nicholas Rose: 00:04:15

Because they don't know the downstream or upstream impacts.

Nicholas Rose: 00:04:18

And so I think, where I kind of mean, Tony drew the line the same.

Nicholas Rose: 00:04:20

It was like, we're going to go do this.

Nicholas Rose: 00:04:21

We're going to do lead to cash.

Nicholas Rose: 00:04:23

And this is going to be our competitive advantage.

Nicholas Rose: 00:04:25

and we're going to know what happens from downstream and upstream.

Nicholas Rose: 00:04:29

And so I think it was just more like, this is who we are and what

Nicholas Rose: 00:04:31

we're going to be in particular.

Nicholas Rose: 00:04:33

We want to rev ops.

Tony Tarantino: 00:04:34

My perspective, I'm a huge believer in understanding the end to

Tony Tarantino: 00:04:38

end business process of every client that I work on, like, I want to understand.

Tony Tarantino: 00:04:42

From market to cash, like how data flows, how it's structured,

Tony Tarantino: 00:04:46

the architecture of the systems.

Tony Tarantino: 00:04:48

And if we're going to do that, we're going to spend the time

Tony Tarantino: 00:04:50

and learn all that information.

Tony Tarantino: 00:04:51

It might as well support all those elements of that process as well.

Tony Tarantino: 00:04:53

So that was like a, big driver for me.

Tony Tarantino: 00:04:55

It's like, we're moving the silos and making sure that we're thinking about

Tony Tarantino: 00:04:58

every project, every solution, every functionality that we build as kind of

Tony Tarantino: 00:05:02

a, How it impacts not only the individual piece of the process that we're working

Tony Tarantino: 00:05:05

on, but downstream and upstream.

Justin Norris: 00:05:07

I think there's huge advantage to being able to position

Justin Norris: 00:05:09

yourself as solving a business problem rather than being like, I'm your Mercato

Justin Norris: 00:05:14

shop or I'm your HubSpot shop or whatever.

Justin Norris: 00:05:17

So I want to dive into the big picture of quote to cash.

Justin Norris: 00:05:20

And I'll confess it's not an area that I'm super well versed in.

Justin Norris: 00:05:24

I've touched bits and pieces of it in different ways, but taking on,

Justin Norris: 00:05:28

the standard, big process of rolling out CPQ and rolling out some of these

Justin Norris: 00:05:32

systems, it's not something I've done.

Justin Norris: 00:05:33

So I'd love, for the benefit of myself and perhaps others who haven't gone

Justin Norris: 00:05:38

deep there, maybe just set the stage for what this is, why it's important.

Nicholas Rose: 00:05:42

so kind of let's start with the definitions between Quote

Nicholas Rose: 00:05:45

to cash and cpq right because they're usually insomnious together, but they

Nicholas Rose: 00:05:49

really usually do separate projects, And some of it's kind of obvious,

Nicholas Rose: 00:05:52

But I think when people go into these motions, they kind of gets lost,

Nicholas Rose: 00:05:57

especially within the organizations.

Nicholas Rose: 00:05:58

But quote to cash is really the business process from, you know,

Nicholas Rose: 00:06:02

obviously, when sales creates a quote or configure something like that.

Nicholas Rose: 00:06:06

And then it goes into what we, you know, we say, Cash, which would be

Nicholas Rose: 00:06:09

trained from an opportunity into a quote, into an order or invoice, and

Nicholas Rose: 00:06:14

then the collections process right between the business side, right?

Nicholas Rose: 00:06:17

So capturing that from a net suite or ERP system for the money, Not

Nicholas Rose: 00:06:21

really sexy money means, right?

Nicholas Rose: 00:06:22

But like, those are the pieces, And there's a lot of business

Nicholas Rose: 00:06:24

process that goes underneath that, which makes it complex.

Nicholas Rose: 00:06:27

Because you're usually having to bring in sales, could be marketing,

Nicholas Rose: 00:06:31

depending on where it sits, which some people don't realize, right?

Nicholas Rose: 00:06:33

Especially if you're like a product or product marketing side standpoint,

Nicholas Rose: 00:06:37

operations, but in finance.

Nicholas Rose: 00:06:39

Now, the CPQ section, configure price quote, usually the details around.

Nicholas Rose: 00:06:45

how do you get sales to create a quote, configuring out and getting into the part

Nicholas Rose: 00:06:50

of that, which is a sub piece of that process, but it's also really important,

Nicholas Rose: 00:06:54

Because when you talk about getting things to move harmoniously between the systems,

Nicholas Rose: 00:07:00

you know, very good example, like usually your CPQ and ERP systems have to mirror.

Nicholas Rose: 00:07:05

And if you don't do that process, well, you can create a lot

Nicholas Rose: 00:07:08

more work for your manual work.

Nicholas Rose: 00:07:10

Right.

Nicholas Rose: 00:07:10

But that business process is important because it all ties

Nicholas Rose: 00:07:13

back into the CBQ process.

Nicholas Rose: 00:07:15

that's kind of like setting the stage there.

Nicholas Rose: 00:07:17

and you know, really, it's important is especially when you

Nicholas Rose: 00:07:20

do it from a scaling perspective.

Nicholas Rose: 00:07:21

I feel like 20 salespeople or 50 salespeople, a lot of times they don't

Nicholas Rose: 00:07:26

have a coding process, but that's when they'll kind of like start looking

Nicholas Rose: 00:07:29

into it because the cost savings and the time for them to somehow do

Nicholas Rose: 00:07:33

some of these quotes, especially if they're complex, just becomes way more

Nicholas Rose: 00:07:36

worth it or configuring out costs.

Nicholas Rose: 00:07:39

Like some of the times we've done these CPQ systems because.

Nicholas Rose: 00:07:42

There's a business problem on say, like the warranty or the support

Nicholas Rose: 00:07:45

side, and it's costing them millions of dollars to go fix this as support

Nicholas Rose: 00:07:49

because sales is selling something incorrectly or wrong or missing the item.

Nicholas Rose: 00:07:55

And from a CSI, they have to go support that.

Nicholas Rose: 00:07:57

Right.

Tony Tarantino: 00:07:57

I think the other thing that I would add is how often

Tony Tarantino: 00:08:00

I've seen clients, who have the sales process, well documented, well

Tony Tarantino: 00:08:06

figured out, well implemented in their systems, but we're leaving so much

Tony Tarantino: 00:08:10

money on the table because everything post sales, they weren't focusing on.

Tony Tarantino: 00:08:14

And that's so important because that's how you're getting paid.

Tony Tarantino: 00:08:17

That's how you're generating cash.

Tony Tarantino: 00:08:18

That's how you're invoicing your customers.

Tony Tarantino: 00:08:20

It's such an important part of, your total go to market process.

Tony Tarantino: 00:08:23

That is sometimes especially technically underserved, like there's companies

Tony Tarantino: 00:08:27

that have full Salesforce CRM teams that Have one part time Netsuite consultant

Tony Tarantino: 00:08:31

who's not handling the ERP stuff at all.

Tony Tarantino: 00:08:33

it's a really, really important process that is actually

Tony Tarantino: 00:08:36

doing the revenue generation.

Tony Tarantino: 00:08:37

It is invoicing that you are getting paid for that, always amazed about

Tony Tarantino: 00:08:42

how so many companies don't focus enough and are missing thousands of

Tony Tarantino: 00:08:47

dollars because they don't have their invoice process buttoned up and aren't

Tony Tarantino: 00:08:50

getting the revenue that they need.

Nicholas Rose: 00:08:52

And like, the industry's kind of like monetize it in some ways.

Nicholas Rose: 00:08:56

But it's really complicated because like, no one really owns the CPQ

Nicholas Rose: 00:09:00

process if you think about it.

Nicholas Rose: 00:09:02

But then everyone also owns it because usually the people that have to control

Nicholas Rose: 00:09:05

it only control bits and pieces of it.

Nicholas Rose: 00:09:07

that's what makes it really complicated.

Nicholas Rose: 00:09:09

So like finance would own like the approval process, but usually sales

Nicholas Rose: 00:09:12

wants to own the approval process.

Nicholas Rose: 00:09:14

And a lot of times we'll have troubles with that because everyone

Nicholas Rose: 00:09:16

wants to be in the approval process.

Nicholas Rose: 00:09:18

And usually you have 13 people in the approval process.

Nicholas Rose: 00:09:20

It's like, guys, you can't have 13 people.

Nicholas Rose: 00:09:21

But those are the humans that aspects into that because everyone wants to touch it.

Nicholas Rose: 00:09:25

And then you get to things like product or product market.

Nicholas Rose: 00:09:27

Like someone has to define the playbook that encapsulates what actually

Nicholas Rose: 00:09:32

needs to be configured and priced.

Nicholas Rose: 00:09:33

And a lot of times people don't have that figured out or the

Nicholas Rose: 00:09:36

structure or strategy to go to that.

Nicholas Rose: 00:09:38

someone else owns that.

Nicholas Rose: 00:09:39

And usually you have ops in the middle, like going like, Hey, we need

Nicholas Rose: 00:09:41

to push this together and try to push and pull these organizations, but

Nicholas Rose: 00:09:45

they don't understand the full piece.

Nicholas Rose: 00:09:46

that's makes it, So complicated.

Nicholas Rose: 00:09:48

no one owns it, but everyone does at the same

Tony Tarantino: 00:09:50

CPQ.

Tony Tarantino: 00:09:51

I think it's truly the single hub that is relevant to every single go

Tony Tarantino: 00:09:55

to market group that there is like sales, marketing, finance, CS, all

Tony Tarantino: 00:10:00

have a really, really important.

Tony Tarantino: 00:10:02

Need for a CPQ that fills their needs.

Tony Tarantino: 00:10:04

So it's, a one thing and all of our go to market processes that literally touches

Tony Tarantino: 00:10:09

every single relevant group and with, obviously more people at the table, more

Tony Tarantino: 00:10:13

opinions, that's a lot of the struggles you see with CPQ is everyone's got away,

Tony Tarantino: 00:10:17

everyone's got an opinion on how it should go they have such a huge role.

Tony Tarantino: 00:10:20

It impacts their lives so much.

Tony Tarantino: 00:10:22

That's what makes this work really complicated.

Justin Norris: 00:10:24

you took it just actually where I was going to go, I was

Justin Norris: 00:10:26

just reflecting on all the different players involved product marketing

Justin Norris: 00:10:30

and defining those packages in many cases, sales actually being the ones

Justin Norris: 00:10:33

who have to work with them users of the system finance being stakeholders.

Justin Norris: 00:10:37

Cause everything that has to mirror over into the ERP world.

Justin Norris: 00:10:41

It's hard enough sitting down as like a marketing operations consultant or

Justin Norris: 00:10:44

sales operations consultant with just one or two stakeholders when you've

Justin Norris: 00:10:48

got four or five, six departments, what does that engagement look like for you?

Justin Norris: 00:10:52

Just from a design and discovery phase, that must be fun.

Nicholas Rose: 00:10:55

So one of the things that we always require is an executive leader

Nicholas Rose: 00:10:59

and the executive leader has to sit above everyone because installing or setting

Nicholas Rose: 00:11:07

up the technology for CBQ is not hard.

Nicholas Rose: 00:11:10

I would say in a lot of sense, and Tony will jump in and probably say, there's

Nicholas Rose: 00:11:13

some subtle nuances and things like that.

Nicholas Rose: 00:11:15

But like, we're not doing rocket science, The things that make it harder where

Nicholas Rose: 00:11:19

delays come from are people and it's usually politics, That comes out of it

Nicholas Rose: 00:11:23

most, and I'll give a great example.

Nicholas Rose: 00:11:26

You know, we've had two times.

Nicholas Rose: 00:11:27

It's like who owns what the product book needs to look like.

Nicholas Rose: 00:11:31

And if you haven't had a clear product definitions of how you want to go

Nicholas Rose: 00:11:35

sell something, how is the system supposed to handle it and take it?

Nicholas Rose: 00:11:39

And how is sales are supposed to handle and can vote and

Nicholas Rose: 00:11:42

configure and quote that, right?

Nicholas Rose: 00:11:43

Especially if you're supposed to define what's on the back of

Nicholas Rose: 00:11:45

the truck, so to speak, right?

Nicholas Rose: 00:11:47

For sales.

Nicholas Rose: 00:11:48

Once the back of the truck is defined and that's where they can go sell,

Nicholas Rose: 00:11:51

lot of times we'll use some of this is like cells is selling a deck.

Nicholas Rose: 00:11:55

They don't care what nails are in those skews, whatever else is in the

Nicholas Rose: 00:11:59

deck or how many pieces of lumber they know they're selling a deck.

Nicholas Rose: 00:12:02

You're selling a solution.

Nicholas Rose: 00:12:03

You guys need to tell them what's in that.

Nicholas Rose: 00:12:05

But if they don't have that configured, Sales doesn't if they need to sell a two

Nicholas Rose: 00:12:10

story deck or a three story deck, how much more weight do they need to go have?

Nicholas Rose: 00:12:13

That's not defined easy enough for a person to understand.

Nicholas Rose: 00:12:16

You're never going to have it in place enough for a system to understand,

Nicholas Rose: 00:12:19

especially if there's too many decisions.

Nicholas Rose: 00:12:21

And so like, that's one great example where I would say probably 60 or 70

Nicholas Rose: 00:12:25

percent of CPQ projects like stall is ones like everything else is

Nicholas Rose: 00:12:29

specialized or they don't really have that defined yet for what, like the

Nicholas Rose: 00:12:33

80, 20 rule exists for their company,

Tony Tarantino: 00:12:36

You asked a question about, how the design process goes and

Tony Tarantino: 00:12:39

it made me chuckle but I think the design process always goes really smoothly.

Tony Tarantino: 00:12:43

all the people at the table are very excited about, Oh, we can automate

Tony Tarantino: 00:12:46

approvals and we can, remove all of these clicks I have to make.

Tony Tarantino: 00:12:49

And my email is going to decrease.

Tony Tarantino: 00:12:51

It's going to be great.

Tony Tarantino: 00:12:51

I love letting the system do the work, but it always breaks down when

Tony Tarantino: 00:12:57

it becomes real, like at the point of like, okay, now that we're no longer

Tony Tarantino: 00:13:00

going to remove Approvals from every single group of closed deal and you

Tony Tarantino: 00:13:05

have to trust the system to do its work.

Tony Tarantino: 00:13:07

That's when everyone freaks out and that's what actually slows down the deal.

Tony Tarantino: 00:13:10

So like early on, they love it.

Tony Tarantino: 00:13:12

They love the idea of automating.

Tony Tarantino: 00:13:13

They love the idea of being removed from the process, but as it gets closer and

Tony Tarantino: 00:13:17

they get to a real point where, oh, no, I don't, I'm not gonna have eyes on every

Tony Tarantino: 00:13:20

single deal that goes through our system.

Tony Tarantino: 00:13:22

I have to trust the system and trust the data.

Tony Tarantino: 00:13:25

That's when everyone like, Oh, I got it freaks out and decides

Tony Tarantino: 00:13:28

that we have to slow down and they get scared of that change.

Tony Tarantino: 00:13:31

That's so important.

Nicholas Rose: 00:13:32

Yeah, Tony makes a good point of this and that usually

Nicholas Rose: 00:13:34

times like, oh, well, we thought this work would be a lot quicker.

Nicholas Rose: 00:13:38

yeah, but by the time we get to this point of approvals, or we get to

Nicholas Rose: 00:13:41

this point of we need to go live.

Nicholas Rose: 00:13:43

We're not going to make that because everything that everyone's agreed on.

Nicholas Rose: 00:13:46

They're going to stop at the one yard line and we're gonna have to go

Nicholas Rose: 00:13:49

back and you as an executive leader is going to have to push them to

Nicholas Rose: 00:13:52

make sure that they're okay with it.

Nicholas Rose: 00:13:54

And that's really hard for some people.

Nicholas Rose: 00:13:56

If you don't have like an executive sponsor for a design process

Nicholas Rose: 00:13:59

to help force those decisions saying, this is where we go.

Nicholas Rose: 00:14:03

The design process is easy, but that piece gets really rough.

Justin Norris: 00:14:06

I'm curious if there's a dividing line between where you

Justin Norris: 00:14:09

would recommend a company needs this sort of infrastructure in place.

Justin Norris: 00:14:13

And when you're like, you're good.

Justin Norris: 00:14:14

Like I'm thinking of.

Justin Norris: 00:14:15

new company rolls out a product and maybe they've got like tiers, like,

Justin Norris: 00:14:19

freemium Pro team, just very simple and they don't have that many salespeople.

Justin Norris: 00:14:25

Is there a place for like you're good keep going for a bit more

Justin Norris: 00:14:28

and you don't need this yet

Tony Tarantino: 00:14:30

It very much, and I hate this answer, but it's

Tony Tarantino: 00:14:32

the answer I'm going to give.

Tony Tarantino: 00:14:33

It very much depends.

Tony Tarantino: 00:14:34

and I think CTQ specifically is so dependent on the complexity for

Tony Tarantino: 00:14:38

product offering that if you have a.

Tony Tarantino: 00:14:42

Fairly straightforward product.

Tony Tarantino: 00:14:44

thinking about like us at Mendex, okay.

Tony Tarantino: 00:14:45

It was, we sold a platform and that was it.

Tony Tarantino: 00:14:47

We never needed CPQ because it wasn't relevant regardless of how big we got.

Tony Tarantino: 00:14:51

but if you have a fairly straightforward product that you can get by a lot longer

Tony Tarantino: 00:14:54

without introducing complexity to the CPQ.

Tony Tarantino: 00:14:56

But that being said, like if you have a, a lot of specific bundles and

Tony Tarantino: 00:15:00

packages and product configuration rules and all these different things

Tony Tarantino: 00:15:03

that, you know, are important.

Tony Tarantino: 00:15:05

To success of your customers.

Tony Tarantino: 00:15:07

And then I would even say earlier is probably better, like

Tony Tarantino: 00:15:10

earlier than you would think a CPQ is necessary is important.

Tony Tarantino: 00:15:13

So like, again, a long, non answer, but, the idea is it very much depends on

Tony Tarantino: 00:15:18

how complex your product configuration is and how you're trying to sell it.

Nicholas Rose: 00:15:22

Yeah.

Nicholas Rose: 00:15:22

So my monetary answer back into like, depends on the

Nicholas Rose: 00:15:25

complexity of the product, right?

Nicholas Rose: 00:15:27

So if you have something that has a lot more quote mine items, right.

Nicholas Rose: 00:15:31

And the cost of getting that wrong is higher on the customer

Nicholas Rose: 00:15:36

support or service side.

Nicholas Rose: 00:15:37

And you're talking, you know, 200 and 500 K more cost to the business,

Nicholas Rose: 00:15:41

then there's probably a good reason.

Nicholas Rose: 00:15:42

Like you should go look at a CPQ system, right?

Nicholas Rose: 00:15:46

And that can be five reps, 10 reps.

Nicholas Rose: 00:15:47

It doesn't really matter.

Nicholas Rose: 00:15:49

It'll depend on the ASP, what you have, right?

Nicholas Rose: 00:15:51

But like, if you back into a system cost, you can get a CPQ system for

Nicholas Rose: 00:15:55

1500 K depending what you are for the volume of transactions, So like

Nicholas Rose: 00:16:00

from a customer standpoint, if that is a leakage in the funnel, that's

Nicholas Rose: 00:16:02

a great area to go at it from.

Nicholas Rose: 00:16:05

the sale side, if the cost of them from a time perspective is

Nicholas Rose: 00:16:09

saving them roughly around the same amount of costs in time, right?

Nicholas Rose: 00:16:14

And it's easy way to go figure out if you cut the quoting processed for rep down to

Nicholas Rose: 00:16:18

an hour, hour times the number of costs.

Nicholas Rose: 00:16:21

600 hours that equals close to like, a hundred to 500 K.

Nicholas Rose: 00:16:26

And then, yeah, there's probably a good reason to go do a CPQ

Nicholas Rose: 00:16:30

from that standpoint, right?

Nicholas Rose: 00:16:31

Because your ROI is gonna be anywhere from like five to 10 X at that point, and it'll

Nicholas Rose: 00:16:35

be an easy scaling conversation, right?

Nicholas Rose: 00:16:37

that's the monetary answer backed into the complexity of the coding process.

Justin Norris: 00:16:41

It makes sense.

Justin Norris: 00:16:41

And so thinking about like CPQ as a system and just the process of rolling

Justin Norris: 00:16:46

that out, as I said, I've never done that hands on, but I've been adjacent to

Justin Norris: 00:16:51

many of them, most often in the context of like, we'd like to do this project,

Justin Norris: 00:16:54

but we have to wait till, you know, next fiscal year when the Salesforce

Justin Norris: 00:16:58

team is finished with their CPQ project, It's always this sort of like looming,

Justin Norris: 00:17:02

goblin under the bed or this, menacing thing that is going on in the background

Justin Norris: 00:17:07

somehow that's never going to end.

Justin Norris: 00:17:09

And so I'm just wondering why does this tend to be so bumpy and complicated?

Justin Norris: 00:17:12

We talked about the people side.

Justin Norris: 00:17:13

Are there other technical reasons?

Justin Norris: 00:17:15

Or is it really just, the organization ends up getting bogged down somewhere

Justin Norris: 00:17:18

along one of these milestones?

Nicholas Rose: 00:17:21

The organization usually gets bogged down on

Nicholas Rose: 00:17:23

one of these milestones, right?

Nicholas Rose: 00:17:24

And a lot of times.

Nicholas Rose: 00:17:25

there are technically and I'll go into technical pieces, right?

Nicholas Rose: 00:17:27

But they'll get bogged down and usually it's a lot of

Nicholas Rose: 00:17:30

rework back from the CPQ team.

Nicholas Rose: 00:17:32

But there are technical pieces and like if you're going to like

Nicholas Rose: 00:17:35

integrations between like a CBQ system within the CRM back to an ERP,

Nicholas Rose: 00:17:41

those get really complicated, right?

Nicholas Rose: 00:17:43

And a lot of times too, those systems have to mirror each other, right?

Nicholas Rose: 00:17:47

And there's like integration as tools such as like MuleSoft, and I usually would

Nicholas Rose: 00:17:52

recommend Boomi or something like that, those systems need to talk to each other.

Nicholas Rose: 00:17:56

Now, the problem that what makes it difficult is those systems have to sink.

Nicholas Rose: 00:18:00

What I mean by that is the product book that is in CRM has to match the

Nicholas Rose: 00:18:04

product book in the finance side.

Nicholas Rose: 00:18:07

Oftentimes, when this is a first time install at a company that has not

Nicholas Rose: 00:18:11

done this, they usually don't match, And finance is not taking an easy way

Nicholas Rose: 00:18:16

of looking at it for the contracts or something else for invoicing.

Nicholas Rose: 00:18:20

And the sake of simplifying the process.

Nicholas Rose: 00:18:23

Or sales has done something different from what finance has, but

Nicholas Rose: 00:18:25

like that takes time to match up.

Nicholas Rose: 00:18:28

And so like, we're going through a great example where we're having

Nicholas Rose: 00:18:30

to amend and do all the contracts for our customer back and rewriting

Nicholas Rose: 00:18:35

them back into the ERP system.

Nicholas Rose: 00:18:38

So when we go back into the CPQ, they match back for when

Nicholas Rose: 00:18:42

a item gets sent across as a sales order back into NetSuite.

Nicholas Rose: 00:18:46

And so like, those are some of the technical pieces that happen

Nicholas Rose: 00:18:49

that from a business process are.

Nicholas Rose: 00:18:52

Arrive because they weren't doing it correctly, but that labor or

Nicholas Rose: 00:18:54

work has to happen to get it right.

Nicholas Rose: 00:18:57

And sometimes people don't realize that when they do the CPQ project,

Nicholas Rose: 00:19:00

because not a lot of people in the company, however, go do one, right?

Nicholas Rose: 00:19:05

you're not like installing CPQs every year, right?

Nicholas Rose: 00:19:08

So you don't have a lot of experience of that.

Nicholas Rose: 00:19:09

And that's why you should look at an agency, but those are the things

Nicholas Rose: 00:19:12

that happen that slow it down.

Tony Tarantino: 00:19:14

Yeah.

Tony Tarantino: 00:19:14

I think a couple of things come to mind for me.

Tony Tarantino: 00:19:16

And I think that the big one, I mean, we talked about kind of the product catalog

Tony Tarantino: 00:19:19

and make sure that's well defined that's obviously important, but there's Very

Tony Tarantino: 00:19:23

often I find so much tribal knowledge that lives within sales groups, like

Tony Tarantino: 00:19:28

how they sell things, how they configure their products, how they configure their

Tony Tarantino: 00:19:31

product, it's not documented at all.

Tony Tarantino: 00:19:33

you have a senior salesperson, it's all in their head.

Tony Tarantino: 00:19:36

And like the process of getting that out, making it real, making it systematic

Tony Tarantino: 00:19:40

enough where you can build logic to support that is always very cumbersome.

Tony Tarantino: 00:19:44

that's always a huge problem.

Tony Tarantino: 00:19:46

So many companies have these sales guys that just know how to quote

Tony Tarantino: 00:19:49

and they've been doing it for a long time and they have never written

Tony Tarantino: 00:19:51

it down and that's a process.

Tony Tarantino: 00:19:54

Another thing to Nick's point is that you have these organizations

Tony Tarantino: 00:19:57

that have Salesforce teams because they use Salesforce every day.

Tony Tarantino: 00:20:01

or CRM teams and buy Salesforce versus CPQ and they think they can just.

Tony Tarantino: 00:20:05

Automate Salesforce within their CPQ, not realizing like how different those

Tony Tarantino: 00:20:09

functionalities are, and they don't necessarily play super well together.

Tony Tarantino: 00:20:13

So I've seen a lot of my clients, have these really complex CPQ.

Tony Tarantino: 00:20:18

that's all like automated with flows and apex and just like really complex

Tony Tarantino: 00:20:23

Salesforce specific functionality while under leveraging all of the

Tony Tarantino: 00:20:26

CPQ stuff that's built to be CPQ.

Tony Tarantino: 00:20:28

So again, back to the point of.

Tony Tarantino: 00:20:30

Make sure that you understand and are experts in the system that you're

Tony Tarantino: 00:20:34

using for your CPQ and not forcing your automation that you know how to build

Tony Tarantino: 00:20:39

to work with CPQ because that's going to have dashering that that's big time.

Justin Norris: 00:20:42

Tony I'm just really curious as you described that to dig

Justin Norris: 00:20:45

into like a concrete example, you could make one up if you like, but what's

Justin Norris: 00:20:48

like a configuration process and what would be like the CPQ way of doing it?

Justin Norris: 00:20:51

And then how do people duct tape it with Salesforce automation?

Tony Tarantino: 00:20:54

Not to get too technical and bore our audience,

Justin Norris: 00:20:56

No, we can go, technical.

Justin Norris: 00:20:57

They won't be bored.

Tony Tarantino: 00:20:58

okay.

Tony Tarantino: 00:20:58

I think the big one that you see is when a quote is created, you

Tony Tarantino: 00:21:01

want to automate all of this stuff.

Tony Tarantino: 00:21:03

you want to, when a quote is created, you want to automate that automatically

Tony Tarantino: 00:21:06

add this product and get with this price point and configure this

Tony Tarantino: 00:21:10

together and do all of this stuff.

Tony Tarantino: 00:21:11

And because again, you know, Salesforce, you know, flow, it's a

Tony Tarantino: 00:21:15

very nice tool, very easy to use.

Tony Tarantino: 00:21:16

So go create a flow to go do that.

Tony Tarantino: 00:21:18

When reality.

Tony Tarantino: 00:21:20

CPQ, Salesforce CPQ specifically is a product built on force.

Tony Tarantino: 00:21:24

com, but has all this backend code that's running.

Tony Tarantino: 00:21:27

That's based on actual individual records, price rolls, product rolls.

Tony Tarantino: 00:21:31

So you basically go to the record, the tab in Salesforce, create a price roll.

Tony Tarantino: 00:21:35

Create a product rule and it will allow you to do all of that

Tony Tarantino: 00:21:38

logic, within the interface of CPQ, because that already exists.

Tony Tarantino: 00:21:41

If you automate on top of that, both of those pieces of logic are

Tony Tarantino: 00:21:45

functionality right at the same time,

Tony Tarantino: 00:21:47

and it's going to bog down your system.

Tony Tarantino: 00:21:48

So like once people do that and then their quotes get, Large in

Tony Tarantino: 00:21:51

their system times out all the time.

Tony Tarantino: 00:21:53

They're like, what's going on?

Tony Tarantino: 00:21:54

It's because you're basically automating on top of already existing automation

Tony Tarantino: 00:21:58

because you didn't, properly utilize actual built for CPQ piece of automation.

Nicholas Rose: 00:22:03

And we've seen this multiple times, like that timeout

Nicholas Rose: 00:22:05

happens and you see your whole Salesforce instance timing out.

Nicholas Rose: 00:22:08

And so you're like, oh, Apex timeout issues, your CPU issues.

Nicholas Rose: 00:22:10

You're like, wait, this is a cloud instance.

Nicholas Rose: 00:22:13

Like, why is this happening?

Nicholas Rose: 00:22:14

Right?

Nicholas Rose: 00:22:14

And it's because you basically cut it in half.

Justin Norris: 00:22:16

Yeah, that's weird.

Justin Norris: 00:22:17

Hey, so they kind of get a car and then they hook it up to horses

Justin Norris: 00:22:20

and get the horses to pull the car without turning on the car's engine.

Tony Tarantino: 00:22:23

That's a very, very good analogy.

Tony Tarantino: 00:22:25

Cause there are no horses and I get it.

Tony Tarantino: 00:22:27

Like I had no Salesforce.

Tony Tarantino: 00:22:27

I've been looking at Salesforce for a long

Tony Tarantino: 00:22:29

time.

Tony Tarantino: 00:22:29

I bought a Salesforce product.

Tony Tarantino: 00:22:30

I should be able to use Salesforce, but that's not the reality.

Justin Norris: 00:22:33

That's really interesting.

Justin Norris: 00:22:34

And so like a lot of the things that we're trying to configure when we

Justin Norris: 00:22:36

think of like price books and products.

Justin Norris: 00:22:39

Make these things up.

Justin Norris: 00:22:40

And it was just in a conversation today about, their product marketing

Justin Norris: 00:22:43

team, like how many different ways you can slice and dice this.

Justin Norris: 00:22:45

You can have different plans that include features.

Justin Norris: 00:22:48

You can have core products and then like upsell products.

Justin Norris: 00:22:50

you can, Take the stuff that your system or your, product offering does and

Justin Norris: 00:22:55

arrange it in a lot of different ways.

Justin Norris: 00:22:57

do you technically see that this is under developed or is it over architected,

Justin Norris: 00:23:01

over engineered and should be simplified?

Justin Norris: 00:23:03

How do you see the impact here from a product marketing point of view?

Nicholas Rose: 00:23:06

I wouldn't necessarily say from product marketing, I have seen where

Nicholas Rose: 00:23:09

it gets away from product marketing and it gets overdeveloped, Like when you consider

Nicholas Rose: 00:23:13

like partner skews, Oh, well, we need to give every option to partner because

Nicholas Rose: 00:23:17

we need to give every option partner.

Nicholas Rose: 00:23:18

We create 15, 000 different bundles.

Nicholas Rose: 00:23:21

Nobody asked the question like, Oh, how many are they actually going to sell?

Nicholas Rose: 00:23:25

So then you end up only using like five skews out of a hundred and

Nicholas Rose: 00:23:28

everything else, which creates a more to maintain, um, in a bigger

Nicholas Rose: 00:23:31

playbook and everything else.

Nicholas Rose: 00:23:33

But when it gets out of hands for product marketing, some point, But most of the

Nicholas Rose: 00:23:37

time it'll be overcomplicated, right?

Nicholas Rose: 00:23:39

Oh, we need to have different versions because of this edge case to sell.

Nicholas Rose: 00:23:43

Well, sales doesn't feel really confident that they need to have every option in

Nicholas Rose: 00:23:46

case they go down to, well, no sales.

Nicholas Rose: 00:23:49

It goes back down to the 80, 20 rule.

Nicholas Rose: 00:23:50

Like you guys only sold two of these bundles in the year.

Nicholas Rose: 00:23:54

And so like, think a lot of people will come with like anecdotal evidence, not

Nicholas Rose: 00:23:57

really looking at factual information.

Nicholas Rose: 00:23:59

And so either way you go through the process, you have it for a year

Nicholas Rose: 00:24:02

and you go, all right, guys, this is how many bundles you actually

Nicholas Rose: 00:24:04

sold to this and then cut it.

Nicholas Rose: 00:24:05

But most of the time I see him being overly complicated.

Nicholas Rose: 00:24:09

I haven't really seen any prompts from people's overly simplifying it.

Nicholas Rose: 00:24:12

I mean, have you told me, I can't imagine any

Tony Tarantino: 00:24:14

I could, it's not necessarily overly simplifying, but I

Tony Tarantino: 00:24:17

do have a number, numerous examples in my head of companies that are paying for

Tony Tarantino: 00:24:20

CPQ and their CPQ instance is just a long list of products that their salesperson

Tony Tarantino: 00:24:25

are going in and searching for the right one and adding it, like, there are

Tony Tarantino: 00:24:28

scenarios like that where, because they don't have that process well defined,

Tony Tarantino: 00:24:33

they're just, I've done the bare minimum of CPQ and maybe are just using it for

Tony Tarantino: 00:24:38

the approval side of the house, which again, it may be there's a use case there.

Tony Tarantino: 00:24:42

There are elements of not using the capabilities.

Tony Tarantino: 00:24:45

Of CPQ as they're built meant to be used.

Tony Tarantino: 00:24:48

And I've seen that plenty of times as well.

Tony Tarantino: 00:24:50

there's honestly, I was thinking about it as you're asking that question and

Tony Tarantino: 00:24:52

I've seen both sides of the equation very often where it's like, see a lot

Tony Tarantino: 00:24:56

of like, why is this so complicated?

Tony Tarantino: 00:24:57

Your business process is that it's not that unique.

Tony Tarantino: 00:25:00

And also a lot of other ones that are like.

Tony Tarantino: 00:25:03

paying a lot of money for this application.

Tony Tarantino: 00:25:04

You're not really using it as it's meant to be used.

Tony Tarantino: 00:25:06

So I've definitely seen both sides of the coin for

Justin Norris: 00:25:08

Do you guys have a preferred like Goldilocks zone between

Justin Norris: 00:25:13

the place where every single feature is almost like its own product and.

Justin Norris: 00:25:17

as you're describing that.

Justin Norris: 00:25:18

I'm like, well, you could really just could use native Salesforce quotes

Justin Norris: 00:25:21

and native Salesforce products and just like build it up, you know, like

Justin Norris: 00:25:24

a list of ingredients in a recipe.

Justin Norris: 00:25:25

So there's that extreme.

Justin Norris: 00:25:27

And then there's the other extreme where like every single possible combination

Justin Norris: 00:25:30

is like bundled as a separate SKU and you have the 15, Like you also described,

Justin Norris: 00:25:35

what's the happy path in between there that gives you some efficiency of things

Justin Norris: 00:25:38

already being put together without making it too rigid hard to adapt to.

Tony Tarantino: 00:25:43

It's honestly a really good question.

Tony Tarantino: 00:25:44

It's something that we're still trying to figure out because again, it is complex.

Tony Tarantino: 00:25:48

and I think with CPQ specifically, because it's so dependent on,

Tony Tarantino: 00:25:52

again, the products and the product configuration, it all goes back to

Tony Tarantino: 00:25:55

that kind of monetary quantitative calculation you need to go do of like.

Tony Tarantino: 00:26:00

If I were to bundle this out, how many deals am I making a year with

Tony Tarantino: 00:26:05

this particular configuration?

Tony Tarantino: 00:26:07

How much money is it?

Tony Tarantino: 00:26:08

How much time does it save my salespeople?

Tony Tarantino: 00:26:10

there things that are often left off that is costing us revenue down the line?

Tony Tarantino: 00:26:14

Like, it's really about finding those pain points and understanding,

Tony Tarantino: 00:26:18

quantitatively, like, where can we use our system to minimize time

Tony Tarantino: 00:26:22

that our salespeople are spending?

Tony Tarantino: 00:26:23

Minimize mistakes, and I think that's kind of where you find that answer, and there's

Tony Tarantino: 00:26:27

not really a one size fits all here.

Tony Tarantino: 00:26:29

I don't think it's all about the complexity of the product and in the

Tony Tarantino: 00:26:33

pains that they're currently feeling.

Tony Tarantino: 00:26:35

all about doing that double click.

Tony Tarantino: 00:26:36

And that's why discovery and understand the end to end process is so important

Tony Tarantino: 00:26:40

because I need to understand.

Tony Tarantino: 00:26:42

What is their driver?

Tony Tarantino: 00:26:43

Why are they doing this?

Tony Tarantino: 00:26:44

What are their go to market process?

Tony Tarantino: 00:26:45

Like, what are their salespeople actually selling?

Tony Tarantino: 00:26:47

And when I do CPQ projects, I listen to sales calls.

Tony Tarantino: 00:26:49

I will take time and I will just listen to how are the salespeople talking

Tony Tarantino: 00:26:54

about this product to their clients?

Tony Tarantino: 00:26:55

Like, how are they bundling these conversations?

Tony Tarantino: 00:26:59

I think it's really, really important in, telling me what I need to know about

Tony Tarantino: 00:27:02

how they're thinking about it is how I want to make sure that I build it.

Tony Tarantino: 00:27:07

So their language is.

Tony Tarantino: 00:27:08

Yeah,

Justin Norris: 00:27:10

Right.

Justin Norris: 00:27:10

Cause for SAS, you have to mirror the selling process.

Justin Norris: 00:27:14

It's not like with your deck example, and I have a, brother in law who's a carpenter

Justin Norris: 00:27:18

and builds decks and he's kind of got it in his head where you can say, all right,

Justin Norris: 00:27:21

I'm going to build a deck, it's this big.

Justin Norris: 00:27:23

I know I need this much lumber, this many nails, this many screws.

Justin Norris: 00:27:26

Like you.

Justin Norris: 00:27:27

can kind of figure that out.

Justin Norris: 00:27:28

But with SaaS, it's like you can just do it any which way.

Justin Norris: 00:27:30

It's all just make believe, so to speak.

Nicholas Rose: 00:27:33

Well, and it gets even more complicated when you do

Nicholas Rose: 00:27:35

like software and product, right?

Nicholas Rose: 00:27:37

So there's a company we were worked with and did warehouse

Nicholas Rose: 00:27:39

spots and software along with that.

Nicholas Rose: 00:27:41

That's a really complicated selling process gets really costly too.

Nicholas Rose: 00:27:46

So going back to the Goldilocks answer, it really depends on the product and

Nicholas Rose: 00:27:51

offer anything more than anything else for the complexity of that.

Nicholas Rose: 00:27:54

but like, to your point, like that tribal knowledge, like someone knows it.

Nicholas Rose: 00:27:58

It's just, how do you pull it out and get it written down into a good structure?

Justin Norris: 00:28:01

So getting opinionated about tech for a second.

Justin Norris: 00:28:03

Do you have an ideal stack?

Justin Norris: 00:28:04

No budget, just put in the best of breed for CPQ tech.

Justin Norris: 00:28:08

What would your stack look like?

Nicholas Rose: 00:28:10

I think it depends on what is the CRM and what is the ERP,

Nicholas Rose: 00:28:14

those are the first two questions, because a lot of times we see a

Nicholas Rose: 00:28:17

lot of Salesforce and NetSuite.

Nicholas Rose: 00:28:20

then the next question comes down to is like, how complicated is the quote

Nicholas Rose: 00:28:23

and how many line items for the quote?

Nicholas Rose: 00:28:25

if they're in HubSpot, like, I mean, the HubSpot feature for quoting is can

Nicholas Rose: 00:28:29

get you pretty far, honestly, most of the feature sets in HubSpot, right?

Nicholas Rose: 00:28:32

It goes, it's a mile wide and it goes an inch deep, but like a lot of

Nicholas Rose: 00:28:34

people don't need much more than that.

Nicholas Rose: 00:28:37

So I think those are the questions we ask is like, all right,

Nicholas Rose: 00:28:39

how complicated is the quote?

Nicholas Rose: 00:28:41

What CRM instance in ERP?

Nicholas Rose: 00:28:44

So then, it's not a really complicated, quote process.

Nicholas Rose: 00:28:46

I would stick to like a Salesforce or Steelbrick, Because still, I like it.

Nicholas Rose: 00:28:51

It's nice in that sense, because.

Nicholas Rose: 00:28:52

You don't have to do a lot of customization.

Nicholas Rose: 00:28:54

It's pretty, like, straightforward.

Nicholas Rose: 00:28:57

on the quote guide path.

Nicholas Rose: 00:28:58

for most businesses, it will work really, really well.

Nicholas Rose: 00:29:01

When you get into, like, SaaS or subscription offerings, like,

Nicholas Rose: 00:29:04

Tony, you've got more thoughts about some of those other pieces.

Nicholas Rose: 00:29:07

what would you like?

Nicholas Rose: 00:29:08

It's

Tony Tarantino: 00:29:08

another thing that I think is really unique about CPQ it

Tony Tarantino: 00:29:11

could include so many different things like CPQ can just be quoted, can just

Tony Tarantino: 00:29:15

be guided selling, but it can also include your closed deal approvals that

Tony Tarantino: 00:29:19

can include your contract management, it can include maybe some CPQs that

Tony Tarantino: 00:29:23

can extend beyond also is like a light ERP so like document generation, quote

Tony Tarantino: 00:29:28

generation, it can do all those different things, And when you're evaluating

Tony Tarantino: 00:29:32

the tool that you want to use, like which of those are important to you?

Tony Tarantino: 00:29:35

Subscription management, another one, like Salesforce CPQ is not a

Tony Tarantino: 00:29:38

great subscription management tool.

Tony Tarantino: 00:29:39

So that maybe go to Zora route or you said there's so many different

Tony Tarantino: 00:29:42

variables of different pieces of functionality that you can buy within.

Tony Tarantino: 00:29:47

A CPQ instance.

Tony Tarantino: 00:29:48

It's about, finding what's the most important to you, what you're

Tony Tarantino: 00:29:51

going to use, and then picking the best and breed of those individual.

Tony Tarantino: 00:29:54

And I do like Salesforce CPQ because it's pretty good at all of that.

Tony Tarantino: 00:29:57

it provides an element of, all of those individual pieces pretty

Tony Tarantino: 00:30:01

well, but like, if you really wanted a super advanced approval.

Tony Tarantino: 00:30:04

process as part of your quote approval process, there's probably a better tool

Tony Tarantino: 00:30:08

that does a little bit better than you.

Tony Tarantino: 00:30:09

So it's just all about finding the different pieces of

Tony Tarantino: 00:30:11

functionality that is CPQ driven.

Tony Tarantino: 00:30:13

what do you care the most about?

Tony Tarantino: 00:30:15

What are you going to leverage the most out of that group?

Tony Tarantino: 00:30:17

And then you decide from there.

Nicholas Rose: 00:30:18

Yeah, and I would say most of the time in that sense,

Nicholas Rose: 00:30:20

like if we see, like it'd be like a Salesforce instance, CRM NetSuite.

Nicholas Rose: 00:30:26

You do like a SteelBrick or the Salesforce CPQ, and then you do like a

Nicholas Rose: 00:30:29

NetSuite suite billing if it's a SaaS or subscription management, right?

Nicholas Rose: 00:30:32

Because like there's not really a good subscription management

Nicholas Rose: 00:30:34

feature set out of that.

Nicholas Rose: 00:30:35

So it just depends on what you're going for.

Nicholas Rose: 00:30:38

those are kind of like the main setups.

Nicholas Rose: 00:30:39

I would probably say a large portion of them are out there.

Nicholas Rose: 00:30:43

if you have a really good complex subscription management piece.

Nicholas Rose: 00:30:47

That matters and kind of goes up and down and like Zora would probably be better.

Nicholas Rose: 00:30:51

especially if you want to do a lot of customization, because if

Nicholas Rose: 00:30:53

you're doing a lot of customization, that's where Salesforce, I would

Nicholas Rose: 00:30:57

say doesn't do so well, right?

Nicholas Rose: 00:30:58

Because it's not, set up for that, you're using the wrong tool.

Nicholas Rose: 00:31:02

If you need to build your own adventure, so to speak, right.

Nicholas Rose: 00:31:05

And it's got a lot of the complexities into it.

Nicholas Rose: 00:31:08

You just can't customize it as much.

Justin Norris: 00:31:09

So you've got CRM and I think we all know what that is.

Justin Norris: 00:31:12

You've got ERP, which is your finance playground.

Justin Norris: 00:31:15

And then CPQ, which is more about how do salespeople configure a quote

Justin Norris: 00:31:20

in terms of adding products and SKUs and bundles and all those things.

Justin Norris: 00:31:24

And then there's this, CLM or, contract life cycle management.

Justin Norris: 00:31:28

Like whole document generation piece.

Justin Norris: 00:31:29

Is that an optional thing for some companies or is that

Justin Norris: 00:31:32

always part of the solution?

Nicholas Rose: 00:31:34

again, it goes back to how complicated is the contract, right?

Nicholas Rose: 00:31:38

It's Let's take SAS, right?

Nicholas Rose: 00:31:38

Cause I think a lot of people follow SAS and it's usually the living piece of that.

Nicholas Rose: 00:31:43

Some companies you'll have legal review every contract, And there's going to

Nicholas Rose: 00:31:46

be a lot of pieces that need to be like redline changed and et cetera.

Nicholas Rose: 00:31:51

And that usually needs a full CLM contract life financial for that.

Nicholas Rose: 00:31:55

And, getting a system in like that place, like DocuSign or something's

Nicholas Rose: 00:31:57

going to be really important, or Congo.

Nicholas Rose: 00:31:59

And I example, those are usually the main two, I would say, but those

Nicholas Rose: 00:32:03

are needed because you just have to have the legal reference and

Nicholas Rose: 00:32:06

framework that's in the company, but you'll have some companies that are

Nicholas Rose: 00:32:09

clicked to buy product led growth.

Nicholas Rose: 00:32:12

Doesn't even have to touch a contract.

Nicholas Rose: 00:32:14

And you don't need it.

Nicholas Rose: 00:32:15

It depends on your coding process.

Nicholas Rose: 00:32:17

Which I hate that answer, but it does.

Justin Norris: 00:32:19

I think about, accounting systems and I, funnily enough, a lot

Justin Norris: 00:32:23

of my first jobs, when I was going through college, we're kind of in the

Justin Norris: 00:32:26

accounting world, I was like a bookkeeper.

Justin Norris: 00:32:28

I've worked with ACPAC, QuickBooks.

Justin Norris: 00:32:30

And so I have a decent understanding of accounting systems.

Justin Norris: 00:32:33

They don't tolerate, data quality issues.

Justin Norris: 00:32:37

to the same degree Like we talk about dirty data and CRM.

Justin Norris: 00:32:39

I'm not saying every accounting system is perfect, but you need

Justin Norris: 00:32:41

to balance at the end of the day.

Justin Norris: 00:32:44

in this business process, which is about actually putting data back and

Justin Norris: 00:32:48

forth between those two worlds of like sort of order and then sometimes semi

Justin Norris: 00:32:52

anarchy, how do you bridge the data quality gap between those two places?

Tony Tarantino: 00:32:56

the major difference here, again, every,

Tony Tarantino: 00:32:59

CPQ go to cash project that we do.

Tony Tarantino: 00:33:01

There's always going to be an element of, manual process.

Tony Tarantino: 00:33:04

And I think that very point of when you close a deal, when an account is

Tony Tarantino: 00:33:07

transferring to a customer, like that data integrity is so, so important,

Tony Tarantino: 00:33:11

that's where you really, really need a deal desk, team, a process of someone

Tony Tarantino: 00:33:16

that is confirming that data, making sure that that data is correct before it

Tony Tarantino: 00:33:21

enters the next stage in its life cycle.

Tony Tarantino: 00:33:23

So like that part.

Tony Tarantino: 00:33:23

It totally agreed.

Tony Tarantino: 00:33:24

So important.

Tony Tarantino: 00:33:25

You can not have dirty data in your, in your ERP.

Tony Tarantino: 00:33:27

You can have dirty data in your finance system because revenue impacting mistakes.

Tony Tarantino: 00:33:32

as much as I'm automation and system driven, you need humanize sometimes.

Tony Tarantino: 00:33:36

And that's like the scenario where I always.

Tony Tarantino: 00:33:39

We'll say, Hey, let's, think about who needs to confirm this deal.

Tony Tarantino: 00:33:42

Who needs to get from the data and make sure that the paper

Tony Tarantino: 00:33:44

contract matches your quote.

Tony Tarantino: 00:33:46

And again, CPQ will help with a lot of that, but there's always needs to be

Tony Tarantino: 00:33:49

an element of humanize here because of, to your very point, you can't have data

Tony Tarantino: 00:33:53

mistakes in your accounting system.

Nicholas Rose: 00:33:55

you go back to the original question.

Nicholas Rose: 00:33:56

I was just like, why did we start Hyperscayle?

Nicholas Rose: 00:33:58

Like, this is kind of like the exact reason.

Nicholas Rose: 00:34:00

Cause if you go with like an implementer, like a conga or whatever else out

Nicholas Rose: 00:34:04

there, that's totally around that.

Nicholas Rose: 00:34:06

Like they're going to focus on that part of the data and the technology piece going

Nicholas Rose: 00:34:11

in there, which is like perfectly fine.

Nicholas Rose: 00:34:12

Like that's what they're set for.

Nicholas Rose: 00:34:14

I'm not trying to.

Nicholas Rose: 00:34:15

Dog on them, so to speak, but like, they're not going to come back and ask

Nicholas Rose: 00:34:18

the business process to the business question back to you as the person of

Nicholas Rose: 00:34:22

like, how does my closing process or business, deal that's going to go work.

Nicholas Rose: 00:34:26

And if you don't have one, if you've never done one, like

Nicholas Rose: 00:34:28

it's the blind, lean, the blind.

Nicholas Rose: 00:34:31

And it's important in this case, right?

Nicholas Rose: 00:34:32

Because the finance data piece of data quality should

Nicholas Rose: 00:34:34

never even be in a question.

Nicholas Rose: 00:34:35

If the business process or the deal does process it's closed very well,

Nicholas Rose: 00:34:39

because like that is the Last line of defense, so to speak, to get into the

Nicholas Rose: 00:34:43

finance system and make sure it's right.

Nicholas Rose: 00:34:46

And everything is good and to ensure data quality happens on the finance side.

Justin Norris: 00:34:50

Is it usually only when a deal closes that

Justin Norris: 00:34:53

ERP kind of enters the picture?

Justin Norris: 00:34:55

In terms of passing data over, or is it before that even sometimes.

Nicholas Rose: 00:35:01

deal closes cancellations, renewals in those aspects.

Nicholas Rose: 00:35:05

those will be big things I would say, right?

Nicholas Rose: 00:35:07

Like contract and money generating events.

Nicholas Rose: 00:35:10

but you could also have from the ERP side back into the CRM side of like.

Nicholas Rose: 00:35:15

Bill collections, Dunning process, right?

Nicholas Rose: 00:35:17

Late for that piece.

Nicholas Rose: 00:35:19

you know, something issue and payment that can come up through that, you could also

Nicholas Rose: 00:35:23

have, you know, renewals that come back from a time perspective too, depending

Nicholas Rose: 00:35:25

on how big you want to go through it.

Nicholas Rose: 00:35:27

But then you'll also tie back into like support pieces, right?

Nicholas Rose: 00:35:30

Or credits.

Nicholas Rose: 00:35:32

So, short answer is no, but there's a way longer

Tony Tarantino: 00:35:34

Yeah.

Tony Tarantino: 00:35:35

I think, I think my point to be there ERP as soon as possible.

Tony Tarantino: 00:35:42

But you would need a really, really, really tight data management process.

Tony Tarantino: 00:35:45

You need a really tight integration though.

Tony Tarantino: 00:35:47

Exactly.

Tony Tarantino: 00:35:47

Like when that data is being pushed over, when it's updated, like you need

Tony Tarantino: 00:35:51

to have that process really well defined and feel really good about your data.

Tony Tarantino: 00:35:55

that's why I, most of the clients that we work with don't have that.

Tony Tarantino: 00:35:57

So that's why I always say.

Tony Tarantino: 00:35:59

Wait until the deal closes, wait until human eyes have been on it.

Tony Tarantino: 00:36:01

And then we'll push that data because that's when I feel most

Tony Tarantino: 00:36:03

comfortable with it in a perfect world.

Tony Tarantino: 00:36:05

Like if I had more control over the end of my process, I do agree.

Tony Tarantino: 00:36:09

It would be nice to have it there earlier, but that's not the world that we live in.

Tony Tarantino: 00:36:12

Like most of the time there's data is not ready to be pushed to the

Tony Tarantino: 00:36:14

RP until again, it's been closed.

Tony Tarantino: 00:36:17

And we've gone through that kind of deal desk process.

Justin Norris: 00:36:19

So then when I think about the role of Rev Ops here,

Justin Norris: 00:36:23

obviously, quoting is inherently a sales and a Rev Ops process, but the cash

Justin Norris: 00:36:28

part, like it's much more finance led and, contracts it's very much legal.

Justin Norris: 00:36:34

and yet I do see like.

Justin Norris: 00:36:36

Quote to cash very often listed as one of the responsibilities

Justin Norris: 00:36:39

and Rev Ops job descriptions.

Justin Norris: 00:36:40

So I guess my question is how did Rev Ops kind of end up at the center here?

Justin Norris: 00:36:43

Is this a good thing for the profession of Rev Ops?

Justin Norris: 00:36:46

And what is the role that, that we as a discipline have to play?

Nicholas Rose: 00:36:49

So I think it's a good thing.

Nicholas Rose: 00:36:51

RevOps just entered into this role, right, because, like, back to my

Nicholas Rose: 00:36:53

original statement, like, everyone owns it, but no one owns it.

Nicholas Rose: 00:36:56

And if no one owns it, someone needs to fill in that role.

Nicholas Rose: 00:37:01

And usually RobOps is the best person to go fill in that role because they're

Nicholas Rose: 00:37:04

already interfaced with everyone.

Nicholas Rose: 00:37:06

And they can understand it'd be like the art writers, right.

Nicholas Rose: 00:37:09

Or mediators between the different groups.

Nicholas Rose: 00:37:12

And they can also lead the group down the right path.

Nicholas Rose: 00:37:16

Making sure they can explain why do we need to do X and Y and the

Nicholas Rose: 00:37:19

reason why does you have impact on this person's impact and job?

Nicholas Rose: 00:37:23

Because most of the time, if you have legal, they don't understand

Nicholas Rose: 00:37:26

the sales process necessarily.

Nicholas Rose: 00:37:28

It's very few between, or legal doesn't understand the

Nicholas Rose: 00:37:30

finance process, and vice versa.

Nicholas Rose: 00:37:32

you got people trying to learn about the different roles and

Nicholas Rose: 00:37:35

everything else that slows it down.

Nicholas Rose: 00:37:36

And so I do think this is good, and it's growing more of

Nicholas Rose: 00:37:41

what RevOps and ownership is.

Nicholas Rose: 00:37:43

Now, does that have some negative impacts and other impacts?

Nicholas Rose: 00:37:48

negative is not the right word, right?

Nicholas Rose: 00:37:50

But like, if Rev Ops is filling these roles, I think it does

Nicholas Rose: 00:37:52

have some other impacts.

Nicholas Rose: 00:37:54

Into the organizations around like system ownership and things like that, right.

Nicholas Rose: 00:37:58

Between like the business process, who owns actually

Nicholas Rose: 00:38:01

doing the work of the system.

Nicholas Rose: 00:38:02

Cause I see that shifting and moving up more towards Rev

Nicholas Rose: 00:38:05

Ops of owning the full thing.

Nicholas Rose: 00:38:08

We're like, what is IT's role in that?

Nicholas Rose: 00:38:10

And that's the whole conversation we can get to later on.

Nicholas Rose: 00:38:12

But like, that's where I see like that trade off though, is because

Nicholas Rose: 00:38:14

they have to go fill that role.

Justin Norris: 00:38:16

And yeah, you, kind of anticipated where my

Justin Norris: 00:38:18

next thought was going to be around like IT business systems.

Justin Norris: 00:38:21

There's a lot of companies now where you have a go to market systems

Justin Norris: 00:38:24

role or business systems function.

Justin Norris: 00:38:26

It's kind of IT with another label that are owning a lot of these.

Justin Norris: 00:38:29

how do you see RevOps interfacing with these or what's the ideal ownership

Justin Norris: 00:38:34

state from your point of view?

Nicholas Rose: 00:38:36

Tony and I have this debate and conversation

Nicholas Rose: 00:38:38

every like, I swear three months.

Nicholas Rose: 00:38:41

And I feel like he keeps coming more and more to my side.

Nicholas Rose: 00:38:44

I'm going to make a statement that I think it is phasing

Nicholas Rose: 00:38:51

themselves out of a job, right?

Nicholas Rose: 00:38:55

that might scare a lot of people or some people might argue with that.

Nicholas Rose: 00:38:57

But if you think about it, you go to Scott breakers slides of how much technology

Nicholas Rose: 00:39:00

you've had in the last, what, 10 years, Like we've had like 150, 200, 000,

Nicholas Rose: 00:39:04

different pieces of technology that's been commoditized for the business user.

Nicholas Rose: 00:39:11

The it side doesn't understand the business.

Nicholas Rose: 00:39:14

They've gone deep down the path of code and everywhere else.

Nicholas Rose: 00:39:17

And we come, all land from index of low code development,

Nicholas Rose: 00:39:20

no code, things like that.

Nicholas Rose: 00:39:22

They have lost grass of what the business is, or they need to have requirements to

Nicholas Rose: 00:39:27

a certain key, which is kind of shifted them down the organization overall.

Nicholas Rose: 00:39:32

And so like, no, it's it's still important.

Nicholas Rose: 00:39:34

I think they're still important.

Nicholas Rose: 00:39:35

So I don't say like you diminish, get rid of them.

Nicholas Rose: 00:39:37

They're gone.

Nicholas Rose: 00:39:38

But the roles are diminished very much down to like governance because a lot of

Nicholas Rose: 00:39:43

times we see is like RebOps taking more ownership of the the business operations

Nicholas Rose: 00:39:47

team because like they're closer to the business and the business process.

Nicholas Rose: 00:39:51

It goes off to it.

Nicholas Rose: 00:39:52

And a lot of times the sales organizations, the marketing

Nicholas Rose: 00:39:56

organizations who are paying the budgets for those people don't get the

Nicholas Rose: 00:39:59

answers that they need and ownership.

Nicholas Rose: 00:40:02

it's an interesting question you asked us because I feel like that's more

Nicholas Rose: 00:40:05

and more coming toward the rev ops and more coming towards the business side.

Nicholas Rose: 00:40:08

And that other section is not necessarily with it.

Nicholas Rose: 00:40:11

and it handles more governance and security, which could be

Nicholas Rose: 00:40:13

a whole other topic debate.

Nicholas Rose: 00:40:14

We've been going to for hours on end.

Tony Tarantino: 00:40:17

I spent most of my career in an I.

Tony Tarantino: 00:40:19

T.

Tony Tarantino: 00:40:19

focus role in an I.

Tony Tarantino: 00:40:20

T.

Tony Tarantino: 00:40:20

group.

Tony Tarantino: 00:40:20

I.

Tony Tarantino: 00:40:20

T.

Tony Tarantino: 00:40:20

has been my managers for a good portion of my career, and I do agree that I.

Tony Tarantino: 00:40:25

T.

Tony Tarantino: 00:40:27

Is that close to the business?

Tony Tarantino: 00:40:28

in today's world.

Tony Tarantino: 00:40:29

And we deal with this with our clients all the time.

Tony Tarantino: 00:40:30

They're becoming blockers more than becoming enablers.

Tony Tarantino: 00:40:33

And that's a inherent problem for it.

Tony Tarantino: 00:40:36

that being said, I also scared of a world where kind of rev offs,

Tony Tarantino: 00:40:39

business focused people are owning your data and owning your systems.

Tony Tarantino: 00:40:42

And like, they don't have the understanding of governance data

Tony Tarantino: 00:40:45

integrity and all the different things you need to think about and security

Tony Tarantino: 00:40:48

and all these things that are super relevant from an IT perspective.

Tony Tarantino: 00:40:52

It's going to be lost on a business focused robots person.

Tony Tarantino: 00:40:55

So again, I don't disagree that it needs to potentially reevaluate the role they

Tony Tarantino: 00:40:58

play in a lot of these organizations, but there is a place for them and

Tony Tarantino: 00:41:02

there's a place for find the right balance between the red tape and the

Tony Tarantino: 00:41:08

making sure that we're being as safe as possible and minimizing defects and

Tony Tarantino: 00:41:11

minimize data issues versus just getting in the way of actual value creation.

Tony Tarantino: 00:41:17

From a rev ops group from, with our systems of records.

Tony Tarantino: 00:41:20

it's a tough, and I mostly agree with Nick at this point where he asked me a

Tony Tarantino: 00:41:23

year ago and it was very, very different.

Tony Tarantino: 00:41:26

but do think there's a place for it, especially if we become CPQ, because

Tony Tarantino: 00:41:29

we talked about CPQ as being that true hub of all these different systems

Tony Tarantino: 00:41:33

of record and revenue generating.

Tony Tarantino: 00:41:35

processes.

Tony Tarantino: 00:41:36

And like, if.

Tony Tarantino: 00:41:36

You don't understand the integration.

Tony Tarantino: 00:41:37

If you don't understand how the system architecture of how data moves up and

Tony Tarantino: 00:41:41

down your processes, you can cause some major upstream and downstream impact.

Tony Tarantino: 00:41:45

So I do think there's a role there.

Tony Tarantino: 00:41:47

But again, ownership of the development and solutioning of a CBQ it probably

Tony Tarantino: 00:41:54

should be rev ops with it support from a development standpoint.

Tony Tarantino: 00:41:57

It's providing the governance that isn't necessary.

Tony Tarantino: 00:41:59

Okay.

Justin Norris: 00:41:59

It's funny, like many things, I find this problem, it has like a

Justin Norris: 00:42:03

few, spectrums, and it's hard to maximize both sides of it, but like, you want

Justin Norris: 00:42:07

your people working on these projects to be very close to the business, to have

Justin Norris: 00:42:11

business acumen, so that's like, alright, RevOps, or people embedded in functions,

Justin Norris: 00:42:15

so that they understand requirements, and so that they're thinking more about

Justin Norris: 00:42:19

the business side and not just, you know, the it only looking at things through the

Justin Norris: 00:42:23

lens of technology and governance and this fortress mentality at the same time, you

Justin Norris: 00:42:27

don't want people who lack kind of respect for elegance and architecture and systems.

Justin Norris: 00:42:33

Cause then you end up with technical debt and then you end

Justin Norris: 00:42:35

up with things poorly implemented.

Justin Norris: 00:42:37

So that speaks more to like it skills, specialized domain knowledge,

Justin Norris: 00:42:41

centralization, so that those people can work well together.

Justin Norris: 00:42:43

So like there's this tension all the time.

Justin Norris: 00:42:45

And.

Justin Norris: 00:42:46

I don't know how you end up with the perfect happy medium

Justin Norris: 00:42:49

between the two things.

Justin Norris: 00:42:50

I think we're yet to figure that out.

Nicholas Rose: 00:42:51

in my experience so far, the last 20 years, I

Nicholas Rose: 00:42:56

would actually argue with it.

Nicholas Rose: 00:42:58

You've had more technical debt being created within organizations because

Nicholas Rose: 00:43:03

they don't know the business process.

Nicholas Rose: 00:43:05

They've gotten so far away.

Nicholas Rose: 00:43:07

Like when the CMO has so much technology, I think that has been

Nicholas Rose: 00:43:10

the Genesis of it because they've always said, Oh, we can't support you.

Nicholas Rose: 00:43:13

Go off on your own and run Marketo and everything else that you can go

Nicholas Rose: 00:43:17

do it because we don't understand.

Nicholas Rose: 00:43:18

And it's not the core business.

Nicholas Rose: 00:43:21

I think that's when it has lost the value into the organization because

Nicholas Rose: 00:43:26

you have shadow it on the marketing side, basically already at that point.

Nicholas Rose: 00:43:31

We don't want to call it.

Nicholas Rose: 00:43:32

I mean, that's the genesis of

Nicholas Rose: 00:43:33

marketing operations and it's just, coming back down to the phone.

Nicholas Rose: 00:43:37

Right?

Nicholas Rose: 00:43:37

Like all the marketing technologies have created all the sales

Nicholas Rose: 00:43:39

technologies have been created.

Nicholas Rose: 00:43:41

All the customer success technology has been created.

Nicholas Rose: 00:43:43

I see so many people in customer success of who runs gain site or

Nicholas Rose: 00:43:47

to Tango, not one person in it.

Nicholas Rose: 00:43:51

Who's doing the integrations, not one person in it because they've

Nicholas Rose: 00:43:54

gotten so far away or they gotten so non technical they missed with it.

Nicholas Rose: 00:43:58

And so the technical debt, they have no control over back in the business.

Nicholas Rose: 00:44:03

And they've gotten away with it now for a finance or an ERP or governance was like

Nicholas Rose: 00:44:08

the finance pieces to manage the dollars.

Nicholas Rose: 00:44:11

It's been great there.

Nicholas Rose: 00:44:12

Cybersecurity it's been great there, but they moved so far away

Nicholas Rose: 00:44:17

from it that they've lost control.

Nicholas Rose: 00:44:19

And I think operations has to stand there.

Nicholas Rose: 00:44:22

my big view is you'll see a lot of operations.

Nicholas Rose: 00:44:25

Or business ops systems owning the systems more and more specifically when you get

Nicholas Rose: 00:44:29

into Salesforce, and they'll have it getting sucked into those sides instead

Nicholas Rose: 00:44:35

of being in the finance or other areas.

Nicholas Rose: 00:44:37

And like 10 or 15 years,

Tony Tarantino: 00:44:39

make sure you have the right personnel in those roles.

Tony Tarantino: 00:44:40

you need that technical RevOps.

Tony Tarantino: 00:44:42

And again, I think the idea of, RevOps as truly removing those silos, like being

Tony Tarantino: 00:44:47

marketing ops, sales ops, finance ops, IT ops, CS ops, truly a RevOps organization

Tony Tarantino: 00:44:52

has people that can do it all.

Tony Tarantino: 00:44:54

And I do think that's the route that our group should go, because that's, going to.

Tony Tarantino: 00:44:59

Allow us to add the most value, an organization down the line.

Nicholas Rose: 00:45:02

I can own help desk.

Nicholas Rose: 00:45:03

They can own governance.

Nicholas Rose: 00:45:04

They own security, That's where we go through and you'll see the systems

Nicholas Rose: 00:45:08

pieces go under the rev ops organization

Justin Norris: 00:45:10

it's super interesting.

Justin Norris: 00:45:11

And I've seen a variety of structures, but I think the one, eternal principle

Justin Norris: 00:45:16

that you've alluded to is like, it has to be responsive to the business.

Justin Norris: 00:45:18

As soon as a function gets.

Justin Norris: 00:45:20

Far away from the business.

Justin Norris: 00:45:22

Inevitably, the business just sort of recreates it closer to itself

Justin Norris: 00:45:26

and that's never a good dynamic.

Justin Norris: 00:45:28

So, we'll be interesting to see how it plays out.

Justin Norris: 00:45:31

I want to thank you both.

Justin Norris: 00:45:32

This has been just like super educational for me to flesh

Justin Norris: 00:45:35

out this area of my knowledge.

Justin Norris: 00:45:36

Hope it was equally so for some of the folks listening where CPQ

Justin Norris: 00:45:43

or anything else RevOps related?

Nicholas Rose: 00:45:45

I would go straight to our website at hyperscayle.com.

Nicholas Rose: 00:45:48

Reach out to us, connect to us

Justin Norris: 00:45:50

And that's,

Nicholas Rose: 00:45:51

hyper scale with Y S C A Y L E.

Nicholas Rose: 00:45:53

the person who owns Hyperscayle.

Nicholas Rose: 00:45:55

com has been selling airplanes for 40 or 50 years, so we can't touch that one.

Justin Norris: 00:46:00

All right.

Justin Norris: 00:46:00

Thanks guys.

Justin Norris: 00:46:01

It was really great catching up and let's hope to speak to you again.

Nicholas Rose: 00:46:04

Thanks.

Nicholas Rose: 00:46:04

It was awesome.

Tony Tarantino: 00:46:05

Appreciate you,

Tony Tarantino: 00:46:06

tony-tarantino_1_07-11-2024_160501: Jason.