Scaling Excellence Across Your Sales Organization - Kyle Asay
Sales leadership is one of the hardest jobs in the company. Your success is black and white—you've either hit your number, or you haven't—and getting a group of sellers moving in the same direction isn’t easy, as anyone in RevOps knows.
Today we're joined by Kyle Asay to dig into what separates top-performing sales leaders from the rest. We talk about how to scale sales excellence, balance standardization with creativity, and build trust and rapport at every stage of the sales process.
Kyle also shares his insights on navigating the transition from individual contributor to sales leader, the real role of AI in outbound, and how to build a side hustle while leading a team.
Packed with practical frameworks and hard-won lessons, this conversation is a must-listen for sales leaders, individual sellers, and revenue operators supporting sales teams.
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About Today's Guest
Kyle Asay started his career in sales as an SDR at Qualtrics, where he qualified for five consecutive President’s Clubs as an AE, front-line leader, and second-line leader.
After an incredible 8.5 years at Qualtrics, he's gone on to serve as a sales leader for MongoDB and currently at LaunchDarkly.
You can also find him sharing his frameworks with over 10,000 sellers at SalesIntroverts.com
https://www.linkedin.com/in/kyleasay/
Key Topics
- [00:00] - Introduction
- [01:52] - Current selling environment
- [04:46] - Scaling sales excellence
- [10:05] - Right-sizing discovery phase
- [12:39] - Building trust and rapport
- [17:53] - Transitioning from sales IC to sales leader
- [20:46] - The job of a sales leader
- [24:10] - Identifying the right people
- [27:47] - Standardized process vs. individual ingenuity
- [30:59] - Handling the pressure of sales leadership
- [34:55] - AEs and SDR alignment
- [42:47] - AI SDRs
- [44:59] - Sales and RevOps relationship
- [48:23] - Building a side hustle
Thanks to Our Sponsor
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Transcript
So let's face it,
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:the sales leader has the
hardest job in the company.
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:Although I think the marketing
leader is a pretty close second.
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:And I'd argue this because success
in sales is black and white.
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:Like you've either hit
your number or you haven't.
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:The DocuSign has come in or it hasn't.
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:There's no credit for influence
revenue or brand or MQLs.
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:And while sales is hard enough as an
individual contributor, at least you
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:have some semblance of control over
your destiny, but when you're the sales
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:leader, your fate depends on other people.
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:It's whether you can motivate,
enable, and support a team of
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:sellers to all hit their numbers.
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:And for those of us that work in
RebOps, we know that's not always
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:the easiest thing to get all those
sellers marching in the same direction.
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:So it's not surprising that when you look
up the average tenure of a sales leader,
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:you see some crazy figures, things like.
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:19 months and I'm really curious to
understand what top performing sales
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:leaders do Aside from asking their
teams to update their forecast five
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:times a day And so to help answer that
question today, we are joined by Kyle AC
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:He has spent over eight years in sales
leadership at Qualtrics where he had years
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:as number one corporate AE number one
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:He's also one of the most prominent
voices in sales leadership on LinkedIn.
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:In his spare time, you'll find him as
the founder of sales introverts, where
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:he builds frameworks to help other
sellers experience the same success.
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:Kyle, so stoked to have you here today.
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:Thanks for coming on the show.
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:Kyle Asay: Thanks, Justin.
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:Excited to be here.
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:Justin Norris: maybe just to start
off, we can focus on the current
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:environment that we're experiencing.
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:I'm a software buyer, rather
than a seller, but I know that
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:I am buying less software.
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:the software that I am buying is
scrutinized way more by, finance and
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:legal and ops, uh, within my company.
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:I am negotiating more.
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:I am more price sensitive.
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:Are you experiencing these
things right now as a seller?
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:And like, how have you adapted to
this post reset world that we are in?
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:Kyle Asay: Yeah, 100%.
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:If anybody's not, shoot me a note
and tell me what you're doing.
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:What I'm seeing is where we used to win
a lot of deals when we found a problem.
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:Now we're only winning deals
when we find the problem.
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:And so when we're doing our
discovery, it's not just understanding
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:what is top of mind for you.
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:It's what's top of mind for
you that's also top of mind.
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:For your boss and other
leaders across the company.
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:we're seeing a lot of problems that
two years ago would have been solved
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:immediately, but are now being pushed to
the back burner because companies don't
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:have the internal resources to solve it.
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:They don't have the budget to solve
it, or they're just more focused
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:with limited headcount and capacity
on a bigger priority problems.
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:but yeah, we're seeing,
uh, it's tougher to win.
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:It's tougher to win big
and it's lower to win.
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:All, all those things are coming together.
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:Justin Norris: I'm also finding strangely
enough, and I don't know what it's like in
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:your specific niche, but, the places where
I'm participating as a buyer, usually
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:it's actually even more crowded because
I think it's, there's, you know, lower
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:cost of entry to start building software.
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:So there's way more vendors.
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:The landscape is changing.
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:How do you think about.
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:Standing out versus your competitors
or are you lucky enough that
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:you have like a pretty narrow
field where you're selling today?
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:Kyle Asay: So it's very noisy.
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:It's never been easier to create
software to launch companies.
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:that's part of why I was very
selective when I chose another
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:company to work for with LaunchDarkly.
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:they're recognized as one of
the top platforms in the space.
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:So that helps.
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:Like, I don't think I'm a good enough
sales leader to sell a bad product.
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:So that, that plays a role.
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:But even when you have the best product,
or you say you have the best product,
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:because every sales leader says they
have the best product, we still have
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:to deal with the increased noise.
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:I'm really big on, for my team,
let's not just sell the best
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:product, let's also execute the best.
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:Because if you have a sales team that
is quality enough to sell an inferior
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:product, and you're lucky enough to
sell a great product, those two things
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:come together really, really well.
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:So I'm all about, as a job
seeker, I want to find a company
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:where their product is great.
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:As a sales leader, I want to
drive sales excellence, so we
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:can differentiate by how we sell.
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:How we show up in discovery, how we
show up in demos, how we show up in
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:POVs, so that way the buyers aren't
just thinking, okay, this product
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:looks great, but they're also saying
the experience with the sales team
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:was better than what I usually see
from other vendors in the space.
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:Justin Norris: How do you do that
at scale like I guess that's always
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:the the challenge because you as
an individual seller may understand
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:how to drive that experience.
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:is it a process thing?
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:Is it like a coaching and an
empathy thing with your team?
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:Like how do you figure that out?
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:Kyle Asay: You take one
small bit at a time.
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:And so this quarter, all we're focusing
on is our continued improvements on
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:messaging for our pipeline generation.
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:That was our first focus
in our PG outbound.
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:How do we sound different?
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:Then the competition, how do
we not come across the same as
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:everybody hiding behind, auto
sequences and AI generated content?
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:How do we come across
different in that first touch?
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:Now we're putting more emphasis
on discovery from the very start
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:of discovery, how do we show up
and tell the buyer, I actually
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:understand your business.
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:I understand you as a person.
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:I'm not going to spend your
time for the next 30 minutes
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:asking superficial questions.
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:I'm going to get right into priorities.
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:So now we're teaching that.
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:We have a long way to go, because anything
that has to be brought out across an
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:entire org cannot be fixed overnight.
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:We're very intentional around what is
the most urgent thing to focus on first.
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:For us, it was pipeline
generation, and now discovery.
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:And then what are tools that we can
release through enablements, through
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:marketing, to supplement the teaching that
we're doing, and how do we go enforce it.
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:So we rolled out this
new way of discovery.
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:We did enablement, now it's a scrutiny.
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:Okay, reps, who's using it, who's not?
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:I'm listening to calls,
I'm doing call reviews.
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:We're coaching, because
it's not great yet.
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:We're not differentiating yet by
how we sell, but we're going to
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:continue to make improvements.
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:When we fix that part of the
process, we'll figure out then how
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:do we differentiate by how we demo.
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:But how do we do POVs?
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:And you keep going through the process.
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:that's how you scale it.
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:One, very small piece at a time until
you get people in the right spot.
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:Then you're on to the next.
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:Justin Norris: I love what you're saying.
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:and I'd actually like to even just
go deeper because, you know, in
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:RebOps, we're often a partner with
the sales leader and helping design
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:and roll these initiatives out.
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:I faced these challenges firsthand.
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:So maybe just starting from the
beginning, like what you described,
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:let's take discovery because
we can all understand that one.
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:You want to improve it.
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:how do you think through like, the
training or the framework that you're
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:going to design up to the point of
like releasing it and like trying to
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:get this into the heads of all those
people that you're working with.
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:Kyle Asay: So you start
with the outcome in mind.
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:What are the takeaways that we as sellers
selfishly want to have from the call?
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:And then more importantly,
what do we think that the buyer
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:wants to get out of the call?
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:And then you design from there.
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:And so we worked closely actually with
RevOps, we worked closely with marketing
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:around, okay, what are the things
that buyers most frequently want to
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:understand after a first call with us?
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:How can we bring them that context
immediately in the conversation
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:without falling into presentation mode,
without going into a premature demo?
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:Then what are the questions that we need
to ask to understand their priorities?
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:Their current states and how they're
measuring the negative consequences of
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:their current state to see if we even
have a priority worth going further into.
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:Then how do we marry those together?
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:How do we bring together the
information that we know the
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:buyers want to get quickly?
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:With the questions that we want answers
to quickly and orchestrate it in a
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:way we're in a 30 minute conversation.
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:We leave.
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:Do we have a priority worth solving?
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:And is the buyer confident?
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:That we're a likely enough
solution to solve it that they
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:want to invest more time with us.
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:And then the umbrella behind all of that
is the command of the message framework.
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:I'm big on command of the message, never
going to claim I invented anything to
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:do with that, but we're really big on
implementing that as part of discovery
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:with the deck that we built as a mechanism
to drive a conversation with context.
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:So the buyer knows that we're educated.
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:And discovery.
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:So we go deeper into what matters.
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:Justin Norris: So you've
designed this, process.
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:And let's say that like you as a great
seller, you could go and take that
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:process and run a great discovery
to get your team up to that level.
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:So first step, like, do you announce it?
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:Do you have enablement, roll out a course?
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:What's the next step to
like get them on their way.
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:Kyle Asay: Yep.
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:So the enablement piece is
all about the awareness.
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:why are we implementing this?
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:What are the gaps that we have so far
that we feel like need to be addressed
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:to improve assessment or moving forward?
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:Cause you got to get buy in
from the sellers to some extent.
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:as much as sales leaders want to
say, and I'm guilty of this too.
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:Sometimes I get it.
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:You have to do this.
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:Go do this.
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:If sellers don't have the
buy in to understand the why.
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:If they do implement it, it's not
going to be implemented well, right?
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:It's not supposed to be
a check the box exercise.
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:So the awareness of why, then teaching
how to use it, then it's also embracing
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:the idea that it's not perfect yet.
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:We know it's not perfect.
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:This is new.
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:We need to go get data, review
calls, figure out what's missing.
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:But here's how we think it should be used.
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:Go use it in this review together.
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:So now we're in the
process of reps using it.
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:And some of us are coming back and
saying, Hey, that went incredibly well.
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:It was a great discovery.
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:Others come back and say,
Yeah, that really flopped.
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:That went terribly.
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:Let's go look at why.
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:What did we do wrong?
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:What's wrong with the tool?
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:What's wrong with our process?
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:And then we calibrate.
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:that's the process.
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:Why we had to do it.
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:Why we did it the way that we did.
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:Here's how to use it.
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:Now, let's go use it, get
feedback, coach, and get better.
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:Justin Norris: I know when I am a buyer
and I'm in a discovery call, I'm usually
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:sitting there like to show me the product.
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:I I think buyers in general feel this,
like they just want to see product and
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:there's good reasons to do discovery.
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:And on the other side of the
fence, we want to qualify, we
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:want to extract information.
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:you address that tension a little bit in
your description of how you design the
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:discovery process, but how do you like.
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:Walk that line between like we need
some information to make sure that
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:we are heading in the right direction
and that you know We know what your
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:problem is you're trying to solve
versus you don't want to sit there
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:and play 20 questions as a buyer.
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:You want to see the product quickly
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:Kyle Asay: think it is how you
set up the objective for the call.
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:And I've been pretty passionate about
this for the long time because the
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:buyer is thinking, How can you help me?
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:How are you different?
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:And how can you prove it?
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:The entire time.
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:There's that skepticism.
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:There's these fears of, you're
gonna try to oversell me.
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:You're gonna say you're the right fit.
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:You don't know me, so I like to
be very clear from the beginning.
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:job today is to figure out if
I'm right in my hypothesis of the
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:problems that we can solve for you.
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:And then we're going to leave the
call with you having a pretty good
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:understanding of how we would go about
solving those problems, so you can decide
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:if you want to continue the conversation.
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:Now, before I can go show you
specifically how we might solve those
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:problems, I do need a little bit
of context for how you're currently
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:managing insert use case for us is
how you're releasing software, right?
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:I'm never going to be so bold as to say.
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:We are the best solution for everybody.
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:That'd be a disservice to you.
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:And so while I think we might be a
good fit, I'm not gonna tell you that
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:we are until I better understand how
you're currently doing it, what the gaps
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:are, what you'd like it to look like.
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:but I'm given the commitment
upfront that we're not going
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:to end the first call with.
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:Okay, well, I just learned everything
about you that I wanted to know.
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:I know that you know nothing about me
still, but let's schedule another hour.
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:So then I can tell you how
I might be able to help.
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:Some of the buyers are like,
nah, just send me a case study
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:and I'll, I'll review it.
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:Right.
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:And so it's that balance of being upfront.
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:I want to get to where you want
to get to as quickly as possible.
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:Here's what I have to understand
before I can get you there accurately.
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:Get the buy in, have that conversation.
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:And then part of the deck that we have
is to sprinkle in some of the context.
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:Here are the outcomes we drive.
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:Here's actually a little
bit of the platform.
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:Here's how it's constructed.
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:Here's what it looks like.
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:Here's how we're different.
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:We're giving that context as
we go, so it feels more like a
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:give and take conversation than
that 20 questions that you just
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:mentioned, which is so
common in discovery.
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:I just barrage you with questions.
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:Then at the end, I give you this 30
second, like, Vomit spiel of a demo, kind
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:of, and then I beg you for another call.
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:Justin Norris: and you've kind of
alluded to that skepticism that uh a
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:lot perhaps most buyers bring and I
thought I found personally like the best
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:relationships I've had with sellers.
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:They have been able to like build
some trust where I feel like my
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:alliance almost shifts a little bit.
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:Like obviously I'm always working
in the best interest of my company,
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:but more like I feel a partnership
with the salesperson to try to get
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:a deal done rather than like, we're
on opposite sides of the fence.
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:how do you think about building that
trust, either as a seller or, things that
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:you have your team do to build that trust?
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:Kyle Asay: So trust and rapport,
I think are two different things.
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:Just call it that part of my philosophy.
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:Cause I was never one for being
great at small talk, right?
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:So that's not how I went
about building trust.
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:I think trust is feeling like the seller.
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:Legitimately wants to find a good
outcome for you as a buyer, whether
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:or not it's with their product.
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:And this is really hard to do as a seller.
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:When you're pressured to close deals,
it's really difficult to actually
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:go authentically disqualify buyers.
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:But I found that when buyers
give skepticism about something.
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:Don't just disregard it.
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:So yeah, that's valid skepticism.
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:You should be worried about that.
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:We actually have seen situations
where it didn't work out.
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:Here's why, but calling out reasons why
you might not be a great fit for some
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:people calling out reasons why they
may not be ready for your solution,
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:calling out the risks and how you plan
to mitigate the risks are much better.
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:Then, oh, we're so easy to implement.
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:Everything always goes great.
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:It's, hey, we get feedback that we're
pretty easy to implement, but here
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:are some things that we see go wrong
that we want to get ahead of to make
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:sure if you do move forward, you
don't experience the bad outcomes.
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:Little subtle tweaks like that, showing
the buyer that we're not here to win at
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:all costs, but we're here to actually
help them make a great decision.
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:And if we're not the right
decision for them, end the
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:conversation as soon as possible.
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:So I can go back to where I
should be spending my time.
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:There's a long way to build that trust.
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:Justin Norris: It's interesting that
you differentiated trust and rapport,
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:I hadn't thought of it that way before.
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:is rapport still important from
your point of view, or is it
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:just, it's like a separate thing?
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:Kyle Asay: I think it depends on who
you're selling to, because there is
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:the emotional element of sales, and
think it's very difficult to work
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:with somebody that you don't enjoy
working with, but there are some people
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:that great rapport is built because
you understand their business, you
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:understand the outcomes they care about.
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:For other people, great rapport is built
because you understand them personally.
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:You understand what they like to
do, what their weekend plans are.
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:Uh, what I have found though,
is most people on like the
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:personality spectrum of, I want
a lot of personality and rapport.
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:They're all kind of medium, right?
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:And so for me as a very introverted
seller, there's only one deal
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:that I can remember where I had
to really elevate my sociability.
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:Because the buyer I was working with
was such an incredibly energetic,
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:personable person, where if I had
tried to get right down to business,
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:they probably would have shied away.
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:So I had to go way above my comfort
zone on the rapport building aspect.
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:But I found that most people are
more in the middle of the spectrum.
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:And so I default to look like
rapport is great, but deals don't
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:get closed in enterprise SaaS.
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:Because they like you as a person deals
get closed because you add value now
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:You're going to get the chance to prove
you can add value a lot more frequently if
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:they like you So you can't just be a jerk
and just go right to the business, right?
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:Like if they don't like you they're
not going to give you the chance to
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:even go prove it But if I had it just
one or the other I'm going with trust
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:because people buy from people that
they trust to actually deliver the
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:outcomes that they claim they can.
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:Justin Norris: 100%.
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:this is a tangent, but I'm curious,
because you mentioned being an introverted
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:seller, and I probably could have guessed
that by the name of Um, and yet, very
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:comfortable on camera, making videos,
putting yourself out there all the time,
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:trying to reconcile that a little bit.
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:Like, is it, a conscious going
against, the introversion that you,
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:feel or, uh, how do you navigate that?
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:I suppose.
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:Kyle Asay: So I can do it.
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:It just exhausts me.
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:And so as an introvert, I get my energy
from being alone, doing quiet things.
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:But when I'm doing my job, like if I
have to go give presentations to a large
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:group, if I have to go lead all hands
calls, if I have to go to an office
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:and get people excited about what we're
building together, I can go do that
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:and people will think I'm an extrovert.
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:What they don't see is when I'm at like
a multi day training somewhere for our
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:company, as soon as I finish my three
hour presentation while everybody else
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:goes to get snacks and mingle, I'm going
straight back to my hotel room, falling
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:onto my bed, and just like decompressing
for that 30 minute break before going
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:back to leave more presentations.
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:So I can do the videos, I can
do everything I need to do.
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:It's just, it's not how I get
energized, it's how I get drained.
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:I also enjoy doing it, ironically.
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:It just comes back down to where I
get energy versus where I need to
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:go, what I need to go recover from.
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:Justin Norris: yeah, I'm the exact
same way and I mean, I could ask
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:myself the same question because
there I am doing a podcast, but I go
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:to like a conference or something.
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:I'm back at the hotel room as soon as
the trade floor closes and just sort
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:of putting myself in that, vacuum,
getting some space so I can relate
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:completely to what you're saying.
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:I want to dive bit more deeply again
onto the sales management side.
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:And I think this is a common truth across
any role, but perhaps specifically in
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:sales, there can be like a promote to
failure thing where you have superstar.
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:I see you say, great, let's make
them a manager, become a manager.
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:and they fail at it either because
they're not prepared or maybe they
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:don't actually enjoy that work.
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:You've made that leap successfully.
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:what did it involve for you?
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:Kyle Asay: It involved a heavy
reliance on documentation.
382
:And so what I found is, I generally knew
what I was doing to have success, but
383
:until I really sat down and methodically
wrote out what I was doing to have
384
:success, it was difficult to teach it.
385
:So I began to document all the
stuff I was doing, the way I ran
386
:discovery, the way that I ran demos,
the way I did territory management.
387
:As I wrote it out, it forced me to
actually understand what, how, and
388
:why I acted the way that I did.
389
:Then as I was able to teach
it in a more clear way, it was
390
:easier for people to adopt.
391
:And then I had to go through the
transition of understanding that,
392
:well, okay, just so I can teach it
clearly and it works for me, doesn't
393
:mean that everybody can apply it
the exact same way that I have.
394
:So then it had to become more nuanced.
395
:How did I manage different
people differently?
396
:And it all, grew from there, but it
started with pressure in myself based
397
:on mentorship from one of my leaders,
Kyle, you know how to sell, but you got a
398
:good figure on teach others how to sell.
399
:And documentation became one of
the best things I have done for
400
:myself as I transitioned from
an IC to a sales leader role.
401
:Justin Norris: Is that common with others?
402
:Because that's like a very rev
up such answer like documentation
403
:and probably like that.
404
:I love to hear that.
405
:It isn't something I always see
from other sales leaders that
406
:I've worked with in the past.
407
:Is it common in your experience?
408
:Or is that more of a you thing?
409
:So
410
:Kyle Asay: that I meet with that wants
advice on career progression, whether
411
:they want to be an enterprise IC and
a strategic accounts rep or a leader.
412
:Because people that are able to clearly
articulate how they have success are
413
:more likely to be promoted than someone
that has success, but can't define
414
:why, and some of them wants to go into
leadership, having a documented process.
415
:I mean, talk about how easy my interviews
are, when I go into new companies.
416
:So they ask me, what's
your process for this?
417
:I just show them.
418
:How do you coach?
419
:Here's my framework.
420
:How do you do performance management?
421
:I wrote this.
422
:I just pull up everything that I do
and it's very easy to articulate.
423
:And then when I'm asked to
describe it, it sounds like it's so
424
:straightforward and clear, but it's
just because I've written it out so
425
:many times So if you're not doing it
today, do it because it'll pay off.
426
:No matter what your career path is,
sales, rev ups, marketing, document
427
:what you do that works and doesn't work.
428
:Cause then when people
ask you, how do you do it?
429
:And you give them a clear answer.
430
:If you're like me, you'll look
smarter than you actually are, which
431
:has great benefits to a career.
432
:Justin Norris: taking it up for a
second because I'm a big fan of first
433
:principles and I like define things.
434
:How do you think about?
435
:The job of a sales leader, like,
aside from like hitting the number,
436
:like that's your job, obviously.
437
:But in terms of like what you need
to focus on and do, how do you,
438
:what's your North star as a leader,
439
:Kyle Asay: one of the people leaders I
had early in my career was big on this.
440
:So if he's listening, he'll be proud.
441
:Uh, your job as a manager, whether
you're in sales or not is to drive an
442
:aligned result for sales, the support and
aligned results is going to be revenue.
443
:The way you drive towards revenue
is you're going to be recruiting and
444
:retaining great talent in order to
recruit and retain great talents.
445
:You need to be able to develop people,
motivate people and hold them accountable.
446
:But if I bucket out the job of a sales
leader is charged with that foundational
447
:layer, recruit and retain great people.
448
:Which requires developing people, hold
them accountable to hit their ceiling.
449
:If you do those things, revenue follows,
and then the aligned results of quota
450
:attainment, high percentage reps sitting
quota, highly engaged sales teams,
451
:high retention, all those things fall
into place with those focus points.
452
:Justin Norris: you talk about recruit
and retain, and, a lot of that can
453
:come back to who you are as a manager.
454
:And I know when we think about sales
managers, you know, if you watch like
455
:corporate bros videos, sales managers
don't come off super well, or even
456
:in some of your own videos, you kind
of satirize yourself a little bit.
457
:Just sitting there, you know, asking
people to update their dashboards.
458
:but it kind of does
relate to a real thing.
459
:There are some toxic
sales managers out there.
460
:There's some managers that
people don't like to have.
461
:obviously you can't just be buddy buddy
all the time, but being loved, not
462
:feared, and yet getting the result that
you want, how do you figure that out?
463
:Kyle Asay: Part of it is recruiting the
right people because the right people are
464
:going to be good with being challenged and
held accountable to the right behaviors.
465
:If you, recruit and
retain the wrong people.
466
:Then you're going to be forced to
balance being the friend versus
467
:being the cheerleader, and it's
very difficult to go have the hard
468
:conversations around accountability.
469
:So right people really is the
foundational pillar there.
470
:Then from there, when you have the
right people that want to be challenged,
471
:want to get better, I hold myself to
as high of a standard for developing
472
:my people as I hold them accountable
to the effort I need to be successful.
473
:And so I, love to go do
call reviews with reps.
474
:I love to go diagnose their deals.
475
:I love to go help.
476
:I love to go help with
pipeline generation.
477
:I'll send LinkedIn videos.
478
:I'll make cold calls.
479
:I'm not great at those things
right now, but I'll still try.
480
:I want to do the work so that
people know that I'm brought in.
481
:But what I've found.
482
:Is when you're all in on developing
people when you're very clear on
483
:expectations and why they are expectations
and why they matter and the reps buy
484
:in that they matter, but you combine
great development focus and great
485
:accountability to the right metrics.
486
:Then you get reps that progress, begin to
see wins, as they begin to see wins, they
487
:buy in more to what you're rolling out.
488
:That gives you the license to roll out
more changes, more improvements, which
489
:leads to increased adoption, more winning.
490
:And then you do this right, and six
to nine months after rebuilding the
491
:sales org, you're going to have a group
of people that are thinking, okay.
492
:There is no company I can work for
right now where I'm going to learn
493
:as much as I'm learning today.
494
:There's no company I can work for
right now that's going to challenge
495
:me as much as I'm challenged today.
496
:And then why would they
want to leave at that point?
497
:Justin Norris: You talk about the
right people and coachability,
498
:obviously based on what you're
saying is a very important part.
499
:What other criteria do you look
at to identify the right people?
500
:Kyle Asay: So right people
will vary based on the company
501
:that you sell for right now.
502
:What is consistent for me is the traits.
503
:So you're looking for coachability.
504
:You're looking for high EQ.
505
:You're looking for grit, work ethic.
506
:Like I never want to have reps
that I need to remind to work hard.
507
:I don't want to prod people along.
508
:That's not a good use of my
time or their time so that the
509
:traits are pretty consistent.
510
:Where it differs a little bit based
on the company that I lead for are the
511
:skills because transferable skills do
matter when you're looking at complex
512
:sales cycles and larger deal sizes.
513
:And so for me, I'm looking for proven
understanding of sales process.
514
:It doesn't have to be my sales process,
but it does need to be an understanding
515
:of how to methodically approach a deal.
516
:So I'm not starting from
scratch with a seller.
517
:I need to have a proven
ability to generate pipeline.
518
:They need to know how to cold call.
519
:Do good emails, use multi
channel, and they need to have
520
:some level of technical acumen.
521
:We sell to developers.
522
:Developers do not inherently love talking
to salespeople, and you quickly lose
523
:them if you have no grasp of their world.
524
:And so while I don't expect a seller to
come in understanding our product from day
525
:one, I do need them to have some level of
understanding of the technical landscape
526
:or the ability to quickly learn it.
527
:So when I'm hiring, I'm looking
for all the traits I care about.
528
:Those are non negotiable.
529
:And then I'm looking for at least
two of the three transferable skills,
530
:because if I hire somebody with all
the right traits and none of the
531
:skills, they will ramp so slowly that
they will likely get discouraged and
532
:give up before they have success.
533
:If I get somebody with the right traits
and at least 3 skills, they'll ramp
534
:quickly enough to have that motivation,
that desire to keep going, and will
535
:be set up for success within the org.
536
:Justin Norris: I like the division
between traits and skills.
537
:Skills obviously are
things that are learned.
538
:Nobody, comes into the
world with those skills.
539
:In terms of traits, do you think that
people are kind of born with them or
540
:are those things as well, refined and,
learned over time, in your opinion?
541
:In other words, are great
sellers born or made?
542
:Kyle Asay: Great sellers
are definitely made.
543
:I think there's some element of
traits that's DNA related, but I
544
:think a lot of people, I have talked
to people that have incredible grit.
545
:that have come from, very
privileged backgrounds and
546
:very difficult backgrounds.
547
:I've seen people from all situations
that exhibit incredible traits and a
548
:lot of it is from the circumstances
that they fought through with
549
:things that they learned, right?
550
:And so I'm not a biologist, I'm not
an expert in that area, but for the
551
:question, are great sellers born or made?
552
:I think they're made.
553
:Because a lot of the, traits are
things that can be developed.
554
:And a lot of the skills are
things that can be learned.
555
:And I have seen some reps
that day one, when I met them,
556
:I was like, there's no way.
557
:And then a year later, they're crushing
it because they wanted to work that
558
:hard and they wanted to get better.
559
:And they completely changed their skills.
560
:I recently had, a rep where the
feedback to me was, Hey, that this
561
:person doesn't interview well.
562
:they've interviewed before and
they're just really poor at it.
563
:And then they interviewed and they did
great because they had worked, they
564
:gotten that feedback and they worked
so hard to prove us wrong in that area.
565
:And it's a great example of someone that
probably wasn't born to be a natural
566
:salesperson or natural interviewer,
but now I'm betting on them to be
567
:a top performer in my org because
of how gritty they were to go push
568
:through those areas and get better.
569
:Justin Norris: That's awesome.
570
:thinking about top performers.
571
:I don't know, but I imagine when you
were in IC, there were maybe times
572
:where, you saw a shortcut, you know,
in the process, or you saw a way of
573
:getting the result that you wanted that
wasn't, standard operating procedure.
574
:And observed as a common
trait of great sellers.
575
:Like they'll just, you know, we had a.
576
:I work with BDR's all the time.
577
:We had a BDR and she was showing
us something she was doing and
578
:she's like, yeah, I just, you
know, I delete the subject line.
579
:I use this because I find it doesn't work.
580
:Like they just instinctively will,
correct for things that aren't working.
581
:And that's really valuable.
582
:At the same time, you want people
to kind of follow a process.
583
:how do you, a, do you observe
the same dynamic, I guess?
584
:And, and B, how do you sort of use the
energies of those people appropriately
585
:that are kind of a little bit maverick,
but often with a positive result?
586
:Kyle Asay: Yeah, I'm, uh, I'm really
big on the philosophy of flexible
587
:process or frameworks of a process.
588
:It's really just words and how
you define them technically.
589
:but the, prevailing philosophy on
it is great reps will adapt process.
590
:To best meet customers where they are, to
best meet a territory where it is, to best
591
:map to their, their current circumstance.
592
:As an IC myself, I had this turning
moment when I was so focused on
593
:memorizing the sales process and being
rigid with it and it not working,
594
:to paying attention to where did
the buyer disengage in this process?
595
:Okay, how can I tweak the process
based on where the buyer is today?
596
:Because not every buyer
is at the same stage.
597
:And my career took off from that point.
598
:So when I'm teaching sellers today,
a great example, again, is this new
599
:discovery deck we're using when reps
like, Oh, these slides in an order,
600
:these questions, I got to be free.
601
:I got to be flexible.
602
:Like I agree.
603
:I want you to be free.
604
:I want you to be flexible.
605
:I want you to change
the order of the slides.
606
:I want you to change the questions.
607
:But you can't make the process flexible
until you have mastered the process.
608
:And so if I have reps that are skipping
through the process because they
609
:don't understand it, that concerns me.
610
:Because they're probably finding shortcuts
that are not going to consistently work.
611
:If I have sellers that understand the
process so well that they're adapting
612
:it, Based on the campaign, based on the
buyer, based on the deal, that to me
613
:is as close to sales perfection as you
can get, because the foundation is good
614
:because the process is good, but we're
recognizing that every deal has nuance.
615
:Every deal has changes, but reps, before
you want to go try to have nuance.
616
:Get good at the foundation,
understand the foundation.
617
:Otherwise, you're just making stuff up
and that's not gonna work very well.
618
:Justin Norris: So once you know
the rules, you can break the rules.
619
:In other words, is what I'm
620
:Kyle Asay: bend,
621
:I'm gonna go
622
:with bend.
623
:Justin Norris: You can flex, you
624
:can
625
:Kyle Asay: Yeah.
626
:you and, and you should,
627
:right?
628
:you should flex things because if you're
in complex sales by nature of the job.
629
:Scripts don't work, Like in some
transactional sales, sure, a script works.
630
:Go master the script, master the
intonation, master the body language,
631
:but in complex sales, scripts don't work.
632
:But if you're just trying to wing it,
and you don't have a strong foundation
633
:of outcomes to drive and how to
drive them to work off of, You're
634
:really going to struggle creating
sustainable, consistent success.
635
:Justin Norris: I alluded in the intro
a little bit to the challenge and the
636
:pressure of being the sales leader and
I truly believe that I'm in forecast
637
:pipe review meetings where there's good
weeks There's bad weeks and the sales
638
:leaders got to step up and speak to it.
639
:That's a lot of pressure.
640
:Psychologically It's a kind of heavy
weight maybe to carry all the time.
641
:How do you?
642
:Think about that.
643
:How do you deal with it?
644
:Is it just something you get used to?
645
:Kyle Asay: I don't know
that you get used to it.
646
:I think you learn to adapt and,
improve your mindset towards it.
647
:I've definitely had periods
of pretty significant struggle
648
:with anxiety and stress from it.
649
:But, the book that I read that
I'm sure many have read the
650
:subtle art of not giving enough.
651
:changed my perspective in a really
positive way to good problems to have.
652
:And so when I start to feel this
anxiety and stress about these numbers,
653
:I'm like, okay, Kyle, but look at
the problems you get to solve today.
654
:And think about how many people
would love to have the opportunity
655
:to solve these problems.
656
:And then I realized how lucky and
fortunate I am to get a play business
657
:in this capacity and have a team that
I enjoy working with, with a great
658
:company, with a great executive team.
659
:So yeah, there's lots of pressure.
660
:But for me personally, I would much
rather have the problem of pressure
661
:and stress tied to hitting challenging
targets than the pressure of not being
662
:challenged in a job or the the boredom
of not being challenged in a job or
663
:people that right now are struggling
to find work in a bad economy.
664
:That's stressful.
665
:That's way stressful, right?
666
:And so whenever I start to
feel that overwhelmed feeling.
667
:I take a big step back, I look
at it, and I put my stresses
668
:and problems into perspective.
669
:And when I zoom out, my problems and
stresses are pretty minuscule compared
670
:to what many people are facing.
671
:And I consider myself very fortunate to
have the problems that I do have to solve.
672
:And when that mindset flips,
the mood flips, the anxiety
673
:slips away a little bit.
674
:And this is a constant
remembrance of that.
675
:I also like to remind my team,
like we talk about goals, we have
676
:accountability on goals, but at the
end of the day, it's just a job.
677
:It's how we provide a
living for our families.
678
:Uh, we like our jobs.
679
:We want to perform well, but the worst
case scenario professionally is not
680
:necessarily a worst case scenario of life.
681
:We're going to succeed.
682
:We're going to fail at different
times, but it's just a job.
683
:We're lucky at the problems that we
have to solve and let's do the best
684
:we can together and try to have a
little bit of fun along the way.
685
:And that mindset has served me quite
well as I've moved into technically more
686
:stressful jobs in my career while still
maintaining somewhat of an even keel.
687
:Justin Norris: That's a
really healthy point of view.
688
:you put out a, uh, I thought it was
really funny video, satire of a day in
689
:the life of a sales leader, but I'm,
curious, maybe there's some similarities,
690
:maybe not, but what is, the real
day in the life look like for you?
691
:Like, how do you organize your time and
what are the things you, you focus on?
692
:Kyle Asay: Yeah, so a lot of meetings.
693
:If you want to be a leader
in sales, especially the
694
:second line, third line level.
695
:It's a lot of meetings.
696
:So I'm meeting with my leadership team
to understand the health of their team.
697
:We're talking about their people.
698
:We're talking about developments.
699
:We're talking about their quota
coverage, talking about numbers.
700
:A lot of meetings with the
cross functional leaders.
701
:So making sure we have alignment with
marketing enablement with rev ops.
702
:So a lot of making sure that the goals
that we're setting are complementary
703
:to each other and that we're rowing
the same direction, not different
704
:directions, a lot of interviews.
705
:So I spent a lot of time interviewing
candidates, a lot of time recruiting, but
706
:really most of my days are filled, With
nearly back to back meetings across the
707
:day and then I do the rest of my work
Uh when i'm not in meetings all day and
708
:that's just catching up on administrative
stuff like making sure that territory
709
:assignments are getting done Making
sure that compensation plans are all set
710
:correctly making sure that territories are
allocated to the right There's all sorts
711
:of things that go into that above and
beyond just the meetings but yeah a day
712
:in the life of a vps sales is uh, Probably
not as glamorous as many people might
713
:think it looks like it's a lot of zoom
714
:Justin Norris: You
manage both BDRs and AEs.
715
:there are full cycle AEs.
716
:There are ways of dividing up the role.
717
:How do you think about running a
motion across both those types of
718
:sellers and how to work with them
together in the most effective way?
719
:Kyle Asay: That is the right now big
question because I'm new to this world.
720
:This is my first time leading an SDR org.
721
:So my first priority as I came into
LaunchDarkly was to go hire somebody
722
:to help me build out that org.
723
:I found a great leader that has run
global SDRs before that reports to me
724
:and is helping us help us structure that.
725
:it's interesting because the SDR to
AE conflict is often AEs saying well
726
:the meetings I'm getting aren't good.
727
:So wasting my time with the SGR
saying, accept my opportunity.
728
:I hit my numbers and I get to
kind of sit in between the two.
729
:And I can have the mindset of, okay,
well, the STRs, I don't, want an org
730
:where I'm going and telling the CFO,
Oh, we generated 15 million a pipeline.
731
:And then he asks, well, how much closed?
732
:And I kind of whispered a really small
number and then kind of duck away.
733
:I want to have an org
that produces revenue.
734
:So part of that is a tight alignment
for what good looks like, but it's
735
:also recognizing that when an STR is
reaching out to an enterprise account,
736
:The first person we get a meeting
with is probably not going to be the
737
:end decision maker for a purchase.
738
:Part of the job of the AE is to go
hold those meetings and get a point of
739
:view for the account that we could then
use to go get hired in the account.
740
:And so I'm really trying to
find the right rhythm for that.
741
:How do we incentivize the right
behavior where AEs and SGRs
742
:actually work together on accounts?
743
:Rather than an AE delegating
accounts, they don't want to
744
:call themselves to the SDR.
745
:And then how do we make sure that we
look at the initial STR set and the
746
:account as the start to a broader
conversation, not a pass fail, is this
747
:the champion to drive forward a purchase
of our software for a six or seven
748
:figures within the enterprise account?
749
:the other aspect to it, I think besides
the revenue production piece is I really
750
:want the STR function to become the
main place I hire talent out of for AEs.
751
:And so a big part of that is building
out a sales readiness program where
752
:the SDR has come to my team, being the
best at pipeline generation, the entire
753
:business, they've mastered that, but also
being quite proficient with discovery.
754
:I don't need much more than that to
begin with, but I do want to close
755
:the gap from them just being good at
PG, not knowing discovery to day one,
756
:they can generate quality pipeline.
757
:And they can run quality discovery
and then loop in ecosystem to help
758
:support them the rest of the way.
759
:So a lot to figure out as I
760
:move into this world.
761
:but, it's fun having the different
perspectives of an AE leader as well
762
:as an SDR leader, as we think about
targets, incentives, how we hire,
763
:how we retain, all those aspects.
764
:Justin Norris: think about very similar
problems in my role, interestingly
765
:enough, and like finding that.
766
:Right place to put the dial where
like, you don't want AEs wasting their
767
:time, but you also want to, one of my
coworkers has a good example of like
768
:AEs who just want to like jump up
and like hover above the rim of the
769
:basketball net and just wait for the
ball to land there so they can, stuff it
770
:into the net and claim all the credit.
771
:how do you think about calibrating
the qualification criteria of what
772
:makes it through that gate to an AE?
773
:So it's neither too
stringent nor too loose.
774
:Kyle Asay: Right now we just have
a sales accepted opportunities,
775
:which is pretty early in the stage.
776
:the benefit to that is it's more
controllable for the STR function.
777
:I don't like having comp plans and
targets with too much of it being
778
:left up to another org to execute.
779
:the downside to that is it can
drive artificial behavior of just
780
:trying to land meetings that are
just good enough to be qualified.
781
:And so really it requires a
constant feedback loop from,
782
:Hey, we're hitting the targets.
783
:But for the stakeholders that might
work to force, does our hitting targets
784
:lead to meaningful outcomes for you?
785
:If not, then we need to continue to
qualify how we structure either the
786
:target or the definitions of the target.
787
:Or our approach all together maybe in
a future podcast, I'll be able to roll
788
:out the answer to SDR compensation
and modeling to align incentives.
789
:Perfectly.
790
:I don't have that answer today.
791
:I have some opinions on it.
792
:Like, I'm opposed to having a heavy
compensation model tied to quota,
793
:closed because it's too lagging
and too out of control for the SDR.
794
:I've also, though, seen downfalls to
having it being too premature in the
795
:sales cycle because it leads to a
lot of production, but not revenue.
796
:Because at the end of the day
right now, every business is
797
:looking at these different
functions, especially in revenue.
798
:And the question isn't, how
much pipeline do they generate?
799
:Or how many SQOs do they generate?
800
:But it's, what's the payback period?
801
:What is the cost of the org compared
to what is the production of the org?
802
:And so I really need to make sure that
as we're building out the infrastructure,
803
:the team, the approach of the team is
with revenue in mind and with development
804
:in mind, because if I can show the
organization of business, we're bringing
805
:revenue to the table, at least enough
to support the growth of the org and
806
:we're fostering the next generation
of great sellers at launch darkly.
807
:I will feel fantastic
about the SDR function.
808
:Justin Norris: when we think
about the role of the A.
809
:E.
810
:In terms of having ownership of the
full cycle, let's say alongside the BDR.
811
:There's kind of two points
of view I've observed.
812
:Like I've had Brian Lamont on the
podcast before he's a great AE and
813
:his point of view was, I always want
to have control over my own destiny.
814
:So I'm always going to do, some level
of, of outbound and pipe generation
815
:myself, there's an opposing point
of view I've seen expressed where
816
:it's like, that is, you know, a
waste of time of like a great ease.
817
:They should just be focused on closing.
818
:and so there's that duality.
819
:How do you think about this?
820
:Kyle Asay: I definitely align
more with my friend Brian on that.
821
:great AEs, like the top 1%, will
find a way to succeed against their
822
:number, with or without any support,
from inbound, partner, CES, whatever.
823
:I, I don't know though that it's possible
to build a decent sized sales org.
824
:In a complex environment where the AEs
are solely responsible for their pipeline.
825
:And so I love a company where
they recognize that, yeah, AEs
826
:need to generate pipeline, but
we also need to support them.
827
:And so I love a mix.
828
:the ratios can vary.
829
:but I am generally, if you can tell
me, hey, I can get your AEs 30 to
830
:40 percent of the way to their quota
between marketing, CS, partners, and SDR.
831
:And then we need AEs to go self
source that remaining 40 to 60%.
832
:I'm pretty comfortable with that because
what I found is AE source pipeline
833
:is generally higher quality than SDR
source pipeline, which makes sense.
834
:They're more senior reps.
835
:They better understand the territory.
836
:They better understand the product.
837
:That's just the reality
of experience in sales.
838
:So I already know that AE source
pipeline is going to be stronger
839
:than some of the support.
840
:Then inbound.
841
:We don't always have control over that.
842
:There's seasonality to that.
843
:And if, inbound plummets, and
your quota attainment plummets to
844
:the same degree, that's a problem
on how you control your destiny.
845
:And so I love AEs that recognize
that, yeah, I would love
846
:great support from inbound.
847
:I would love great
support from CES and SDRs.
848
:But if I don't get it, I'll
make up the difference.
849
:and that's a big topic
right now at LaunchDarkly.
850
:It's like, here's the support we get.
851
:Here's the gap to close.
852
:And here's what we have to
do as an AE org to get there.
853
:And a lot of the AEs are leaning
into it and they're blowing out
854
:those numbers they need to go get to.
855
:And I can't wait to see the revenue
results as we improve support from CS,
856
:as we improve support from SDR and they
maintain that focus on the pipeline.
857
:Those are AEs that hit 200 percent
of quota, not just a hundred percent.
858
:Justin Norris: It's a good place to be.
859
:I think I know your answer to this
question probably, but, AI SDRs, you
860
:know, you're going to replace your whole,
uh, SDR org with AI bots anytime soon.
861
:What are you thinking?
862
:Kyle Asay: I hope all
of our competitors do.
863
:I hope they go all in on the
AISDR in all seriousness, I think
864
:there are great tools being built.
865
:The problem is anything
that can be scaled.
866
:Saturates and anything that saturates,
even if it's really good is ignored.
867
:And so when I look at the channels
that work for us right now in PG, our
868
:best channels are the things that can
not be automated, can not be scaled.
869
:And so when I hear AI SDR.
870
:The goal is really personalized, really
value driven emails and messages at scale.
871
:Well, when all of a sudden the
buyer has hundreds of emails
872
:that are hyper personalized, very
valuable, very relevant, all of a
873
:sudden, by default, none of them
are personalized, none of them are
874
:valuable, and none of them are relevant.
875
:And so I've seen a lot of the data
on it where people see a quick spike
876
:as they uncover some of the low
hanging fruit, and then it decreases.
877
:For me and my org, there are no
plans to replace SDRs with AI agents.
878
:I'm really big on AI in sales.
879
:I'm doing some work right now with
Clay around territory management and
880
:my mind is blown at what I can uncover.
881
:But all of this is to accelerate
what we do with sellers.
882
:Not to replace.
883
:So you'll hear me say often,
I don't believe in shortcuts.
884
:I believe in accelerants.
885
:I want to use AI to accelerate my SDRs,
accelerate my AEs, make us more efficient.
886
:But the idea of replacing, maybe I'll be
burns, but I'm, I'm quite skeptical on
887
:that, at least for the foreseeable future.
888
:Justin Norris: No, I think you're right.
889
:And I think, as an accelerant, as an aid.
890
:As a way of automating, uh, work that
is repetitive, that can be automated.
891
:as an assistant, I think that makes
total sense, but yeah, the, the
892
:output that I've seen from evaluating
these tools, to fully, have a, AI
893
:SDRs, I've not seen anything that
I'd want to expose to my audience.
894
:let's think a little bit
about the relationship with,
895
:sales ops or with rev ops.
896
:We've alluded to it a few times.
897
:I've had.
898
:Cody Guymon on the show before.
899
:I know you worked with him at Qualtrics.
900
:He actually introduced us a great
revenue operator, really insightful guy.
901
:How have you, not necessarily with
him, but just in general, how have
902
:you thought about an experience,
this relationship with RebOps before?
903
:Sometimes there can be tension,
RebOps and sales leadership.
904
:Sometimes it can be a great partnership.
905
:What's your experience been like overall?
906
:Kyle Asay: it's one of the reasons
why I joined LongStar Arcly,
907
:because I interviewed with our
RevOps leader and I love the guy.
908
:Like, cause I, I view RevOps as
being a mission critical partner.
909
:I cannot make good decisions.
910
:without great data, or I can't
form a good hypothesis, I
911
:should say, without good data.
912
:I cannot structure an org and scale
an org through territory, through
913
:targets, without a great partnership.
914
:And so I view RevOps as being, the most
critical partner for what I do, because
915
:they helped me work better with marketing.
916
:They helped me work
better with enablement.
917
:They helped me work better with
every function that partners with
918
:sales and without strong rev ops, all
those things fall apart and we're no
919
:longer rowing in the right direction.
920
:I always joke that in a different
universe, there's another Kyle
921
:that's just a little bit smarter
than this version of Kyle.
922
:And he's our RevOps leader.
923
:He's not in the sales.
924
:He's in a RevOps.
925
:I love the stuff.
926
:And current, if you're listening
to this, uh, you know that I
927
:love working with your team.
928
:Y'all are, y'all are a highlight for me.
929
:Justin Norris: So there's probably some
rev ops folks listening to this right
930
:now that are thinking like, gosh, I
wish that I could have that sort of
931
:relationship with my, sales leader.
932
:And, obviously there's, the sales
leader themselves has a component part
933
:to play in that from the rev ops side,
what would your advice be, like if
934
:you were designing your perfect rev
ops partner, what would What are the
935
:things that they should do to provide
maximum value to you as a sales leader?
936
:Kyle Asay: transparency is big.
937
:Like, especially when you come
down to things like target setting.
938
:It's like, hey, when you share
targets with me, give me the
939
:assumptions you're making.
940
:Help me understand the
projections you're making.
941
:be human about it.
942
:Let's talk through things.
943
:Like, it's always nice when,
uh, when you're talking about
944
:quotas and you're understanding.
945
:You're, you're balancing
the needs of the business.
946
:You're balancing what morale will happen.
947
:With comp plan stuff, it's similar,
because as a senior sales leader, you
948
:don't want to over index to sales, right?
949
:You do want to run a healthy sales
work to support a growing company,
950
:but you also want to put out a plan
where your people can have tons of
951
:success and make a lot of money.
952
:And so having that transparency
aspect around target setting is huge.
953
:Uh, because oftentimes I've
seen RebOps teams make decisions
954
:off of bad assumptions.
955
:And we didn't hear about the assumptions
they made until it was already ruled
956
:out and a lot of damage was done.
957
:Had they shared assumptions up front
that went into the model, we could have
958
:challenged it in that moment, and we
could have come to a better conclusion.
959
:And so view it as a true partnership, not
as like this little curtain between the
960
:two where we have to kind of guard things.
961
:Because not all sales leaders are just
going to push for the lowest quota.
962
:Not all sales are going to go push
for the highest possible comp rates.
963
:We understand the balance to the
business, but if you're not transparent
964
:with everything going into the models,
you're going to miss out on valuable
965
:insight from the sales side that if
you understood would probably change
966
:those models and those projections.
967
:So that's the biggest piece.
968
:Be a partner, not a
policymaker and an enforcer.
969
:Justin Norris: Good advice Maybe just
in closing last question we have time
970
:for you've Built a really interesting
side hustle with sales introverts.
971
:a huge audience for yourself.
972
:You have 65, 000 followers on LinkedIn.
973
:You know, I see you all the time there.
974
:You get lots of engagement
in what you're doing.
975
:A lot of positive feedback.
976
:It looks like, just some lessons learned
building a side hustle, doing it myself.
977
:I know it's hard.
978
:You also have a family, you have a
lot of responsibility at your day job.
979
:How do you, figure that out?
980
:Kyle Asay: Yeah, my advice that
also goes to sales leadership too.
981
:It's I, I focus on what I
am uniquely able to do and I
982
:partner with others for the rest.
983
:And so with my, my business, I
have a great partner that does
984
:website stuff, automations.
985
:Product design, all sorts of things.
986
:the only things that I have to
worry about are content creation.
987
:And that's easy, because all I'm doing
is taking what I'm doing every day
988
:at my job, and then repurposing it
to be relevant to a larger audience,
989
:and not just a little universe.
990
:that I live in, uh, other lessons
that I've learned is not all the
991
:feedback I get is always positive.
992
:It doesn't happen often, but
sometimes I get very angry messages
993
:from strangers, uh, and I don't
understand it, but it's just part
994
:of when you put yourself out there.
995
:And so I've had to learn
to not worry about it.
996
:I'm trying to mature to the point where
when somebody is a jerk like that,
997
:they just ignore and not feel the need
to respond and I'm getting better.
998
:But my encouragement to people
is, The benefits to sharing what
999
:you've learned far outweigh the
negatives that might come from it.
:
00:49:50,924 --> 00:49:52,594
So yeah, I think those are
really the main two things.
:
00:49:52,594 --> 00:49:55,864
I've had to learn what do I have
to uniquely do, how do I get help
:
00:49:55,864 --> 00:49:57,844
for the rest so I can scale myself.
:
00:49:58,284 --> 00:50:02,223
And then, you're going to do things
that get positive feedback, you're
:
00:50:02,263 --> 00:50:04,193
also going to get negative feedback.
:
00:50:04,483 --> 00:50:05,143
Don't sweat it.
:
00:50:05,795 --> 00:50:07,955
things with people that you
get positive feedback from.
:
00:50:08,505 --> 00:50:10,955
Justin Norris: I'll have to say when
I was researching this episode, I
:
00:50:11,035 --> 00:50:14,305
think I came across some Reddit thread
where somebody was saying something,
:
00:50:14,315 --> 00:50:15,575
you know, mildly critical of you.
:
00:50:15,575 --> 00:50:17,805
And you actually jumped into
that thread, responded to them.
:
00:50:17,805 --> 00:50:18,645
And they're like, Oh, wow.
:
00:50:18,645 --> 00:50:22,268
Like my point of view about you
has changed as a result of this.
:
00:50:22,268 --> 00:50:25,308
So I think that was a masterclass
of, hugging your haters
:
00:50:25,348 --> 00:50:27,228
and turning them into fans.
:
00:50:27,608 --> 00:50:28,628
I thought that was really well done.
:
00:50:29,215 --> 00:50:30,435
Kyle Asay: that guy was rational.
:
00:50:31,045 --> 00:50:31,395
A lot of
:
00:50:31,625 --> 00:50:33,405
Justin Norris: everybody
is rational out there.
:
00:50:33,405 --> 00:50:34,355
I understand that too.
:
00:50:34,962 --> 00:50:36,552
really appreciate you being on the show.
:
00:50:36,652 --> 00:50:38,392
Super insightful, super useful.
:
00:50:38,392 --> 00:50:41,564
If people want to find you,
they can look you up on LinkedIn
:
00:50:41,574 --> 00:50:43,104
or go to sales introverts.
:
00:50:43,704 --> 00:50:47,574
com tons of great resources
there, but yeah, thank you so
:
00:50:47,574 --> 00:50:48,934
much for chatting with us today.
:
00:50:49,571 --> 00:50:50,081
Kyle Asay: a pleasure.
:
00:50:50,081 --> 00:50:52,411
Thank you for coming prepared
with so many awesome questions.
:
00:50:52,411 --> 00:50:53,431
I really enjoyed the conversation.